"Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Miles
Savant
Posts: 5179
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 434 times
Been thanked: 1614 times

"Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #1

Post by Miles »

.

The disciple whom Jesus loved is referred to, specifically, six times in the book of John.


John 13:23-25
23 Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved.
24 Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake.
25 He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

__________________________

John 19:26-27
26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

__________________________

John 20:1-2

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

__________________________

John 21: 7
7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was
naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

__________________________

John 21: 20-23
20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?
21 Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?
22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

__________________________

John 21: 24
24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.


As for which disciple Jesus was in love with, in the Wikipdia article: "Disciple whom Jesus loved"; the main candidate is none other than John himself

"Some scholars have additionally suggested a homoerotic interpretation of Christ's relationship with the Beloved Disciple, although such a scriptural reading is disputed . . . . Tilborg suggests that the portrait in the Gospel of John is "positively attuned to the development of possibly homosexual behaviour". . . .

The relationship between Christ and John was certainly interpreted by some as being of a physical erotic nature as early as the 16th century (albeit in a "heretical" context) - documented, for example, in the trial for blasphemy of Christopher Marlowe, who was accused of claiming that "St. John the Evangelist was bedfellow to Christ and leaned always in his bosom, that he used him as the sinners of Sodoma". In accusing Marlowe of the "sinful nature" of homosexual acts, James I of England inevitably invited comparisons to his own erotic relationship with the Duke of Buckingham which he also compared to that of the Beloved Disciple. Finally, Francesco Calcagno, a friar of Venicefaced trial and was executed in 1550 for claiming that "St. John was Christ's catamite".

Dynes also makes a link to the modern day where in 1970s New York a popular religious group was established called the "Church of the Beloved Disciple", with the intention of giving a positive reading of the relationship to support respect for same-sex love."


However, based on John 11:5: "Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus", and John 11:3 "Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick." some scholars feel Lazarus of Bethany is a better candidate,

Others, through a bit of tap dancing, have proposed that the beloved disciple was originally Mary Magdalene

Or, Jesus's beloved disciple may have been "a priestly member of a quasimonastic, mystical, and ascetic Jewish aristocracy, located on Jerusalem's prestigious southwest hill, who had hosted Jesus' last supper in that location"

Whatever the case, none of these scholars seem to have denied a homosexual connection with the Beloved Disciple. Even today there are those who believe Jesus was gay.




"Was Jesus gay? Probably"
.............by Paul Oestreicher

I preached on Good Friday that Jesus's intimacy with John suggested he was gay as I felt deeply it had to be addressed.

Jesus was a Hebrew rabbi. Unusually, he was unmarried. The idea that he had a romantic relationship with Mary Magdalene is the stuff of fiction, based on no biblical evidence. The evidence, on the other hand, that he may have been what we today call gay is very strong. But even gay rights campaigners in the church have been reluctant to suggest it. A significant exception was Hugh Montefiore, bishop of Birmingham and a convert from a prominent Jewish family. He dared to suggest that possibility and was met with disdain, as though he were simply out to shock.

After much reflection and with certainly no wish to shock, I felt I was left with no option but to suggest, for the first time in half a century of my Anglican priesthood, that Jesus may well have been homosexual. Had he been devoid of sexuality, he would not have been truly human. To believe that would be heretical.
source


SO, what do you, members of Debating Christianity and Religion, think? Jesus: likely gay or not?


.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21142
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 794 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #81

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?



JW
Because it wasn't the norm for the time and culture.


Do you have any documentation to prove that?





JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #82

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:47 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?



JW
Because it wasn't the norm for the time and culture.


Do you have any documentation to prove that?





JW

I never said I had any documents.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
Purple Knight
Prodigy
Posts: 3514
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 1139 times
Been thanked: 733 times

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #83

Post by Purple Knight »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?
Because it's unreasonable to expect photographic evidence of him engaged in a homosexual act. It's just as unreasonable as to expect such a degree of evidence that he existed at all.

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21142
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 794 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #84

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:52 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:47 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?



JW
Because it wasn't the norm for the time and culture.


Do you have any documentation to prove that?





JW

I never said I had any documents.
I am aware of that I am asking you if you have any documented evidence or academic writings to suport your claim that being single at 30 {quote} " wasn't the norm for the time and culture"? On what do you base thus statement?



JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #85

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:56 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:52 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:47 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:40 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:43 pm

By 'lack of female companionship' I was referring directly to romantically, be it wife, girlfriend, FWB, whatever. Does that, itself, make him gay? No. Does it raise the question of his sexuality (or even if he had any)? Absolutely.
Why?



JW
Because it wasn't the norm for the time and culture.


Do you have any documentation to prove that?





JW

I never said I had any documents.
I am aware of that I am asking you if uou have any documented evidence or academic writing to supoort your claim.



JW
No where did I say, or elude, to the fact that I had any documents.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21142
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 794 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #86

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:58 pm No where did I say, or elude, to the fact that I had any documents.
I am aware of that (see edit above). Are you aware that when you make a claim in a debating forum, especially one related to historical facts, one may be asked to present proof of that claim?

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm Because it wasn't the norm for the time and culture.
What do you know about first century culture that has lead you to this conclusion ? and how do you know it.



JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #87

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:03 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:58 pm No where did I say, or elude, to the fact that I had any documents.
I am aware of that (see edit above). Are you aware that when you make a claim in a debating forum, especially one related to historical facts, one may be asked to present proof of that claim?



JW
what do you, members of Debating Christianity and Religion, think? Jesus: likely gay or not?
I have to prove nothing.
I was asked my opinion.
I gave it based on my life's experiences.
No where in the above quote does it demand documented proof.
Going beyond that, I gave references originally about how it's possible to come to that conclusion. There weren't the biblical canon. If that's not good enough for you, that's not my problem.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 21142
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 794 times
Been thanked: 1129 times
Contact:

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #88

Post by JehovahsWitness »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:08 pm I was asked my opinion. I gave it based on my life's experiences.
Unless your life experience is from first century Palestine, it really isnt particularly relevant. I hope asking you to back up your statement with facts wasn't to upsetting an experience for you.


Thanks anyway and please have a pleasant weekend.




JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

nobspeople
Prodigy
Posts: 3187
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:32 am
Has thanked: 1510 times
Been thanked: 824 times

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #89

Post by nobspeople »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:19 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:08 pm I was asked my opinion. I gave it based on my life's experiences.
Unless your life experience is from first century Palestine, it really isnt particularly relevant. I hope asking you to back up your statement with facts wasn't to upsetting an experience for you.


Thanks anyway and please have a pleasant weekend.




JW
Hilarious
My experiences aren't relevant to forming my own opinions?!?
That's hysterical. And very telling.
I'm sorry for you that you can't force my opinion to be your own. I guess I'm not as easily swayed as weak minded individuals that exists today.
And thank you - I plan on having a pleasant weekend. 8-)
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

Revelations won
Sage
Posts: 842
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:13 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: "Was Jesus Gay? Probably"

Post #90

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Miles,

Your OP post does not provide any undeniable proof in support of your private interpretations.

The last account of Christ’s early life poor to his 30th year was at age 12. The only statement from scripture in the intervening years from youth to 30 is:

“Luke 2: 40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.”

“Luke 2:
52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man."

You have made a private assumption and speculation that by age 30 Christ was not married. There is no verified evidence to support your claim.

Since Christ was “filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.” “52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. There is no basis for your interpretation presented.

Inasmuch as Christ was and is our exemplar it would appear that he was in all probability married.

Kind regards,
RW

Post Reply