What is a heresy?

[Checkpoint]

Imagine this arrived on your desk one day.

"... it is what it is ... a well-known heresy ... those who have bought into it have bought into a heresy."

How do you think you would have responded?

I immediately asked myself an obvious question, "Just what is a heresy, anyway?"

And set about finding out. You may have too. If so, tell us about it.

For discussion and debate:

Who or what determines what is or is not a heresy?

Who is, or has been, labelled a heretic?

How has a heretic been treated in the Bible, and since it was completed?

By whom was this done to the heretic, or to heretics?

[Checkpoint]

Peace to you,

[Replying to Miles in post #2]

It's an interesting definition, isn't it (peace to you and Checkpoint, both!) One has to wonder who (or what) that definition serves?

How about all those who wish to denote a belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious doctrine, or any opinion profoundly at odds with what is generally accepted?

Well, sure, lol

The definition serves religious institutions, protecting their authority and power in this world.

Because it certainly doesn't serve the Truth (or the truth that Christ taught).

If it was heretical it does.

I don't understand what you mean here, sorry.

He was often profoundly at odds with what was generally accepted, including what was accepted and taught by the religious leaders, and their traditions and doctrines. How many times did He correct them, saying, "You have heard it said, but I tell you now..."

Then Jesus seems to have been a heretic.


.

And that is my point. The term and definition does not serve the Truth (Christ).





Peace again to you, and to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes, Jesus Anointed is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

And yes, he was seen by the orthodoxy of his day, as a heretic, which finally resulted in him being killed.

Often his followers met the same fate, as those of religion had labelled them a sect of heretics, Acts 24:5, 14.

His grace and peace be with you, tammy, and with all.

[Eloi]

In the Bible the word "heresy" has a somewhat different meaning than the one is commonly attributed to it today.

2 Pet. 2:1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, with covetousness they will exploit YOU with counterfeit words. But as for them, the judgment from of old is not moving slowly, and the destruction of them is not slumbering.

It is used in these texts too: Ac. 5:17; 15:5; 24: 5, 14; 26:5; 28:22; 1 Cor. 11:19; Gal. 5:20. In some of those places where that word is used in the Bible, the meaning is not necessarily negative, like the one given in our time.

The word "sect" is an appropriate translation in a general sense, but even so, the word "sect" does not always have a negative connotation, except when it applies to a division that damages the unity of beliefs within an organized group and with already established beliefs, like first century Christians, who had a body of basic doctrines that could not be denied or taught otherwise.

[PinSeeker]

For a practical application, heresy is when a person claims to be a part of an established religion but teaches something contrary to that religion. For instance if a person described himself as a Christian and said that there is not one God, then that person would be committing heresy.

I am unaware of any specific person being called heretic in the Bible. The closest I know of in Revelations 2:20, which talks about a “that woman Jezebel.” However, the context makes it unlikely that Jezebel was the person’s real name, and it may not have been a single individual at all. The only action prescribed towards “Jezebel” is that Christians should not accept her teachings.

Jezebel of the Old Testament was not a heretic, but rather a false teacher or false prophet of sorts. Along with her husband, she instituted the worship of Baal and Asherah on a national scale... and violently purged the prophets of God from Israel. Her story in 2 Kings is very interesting indeed.

You're right about the mention of Jezebel in Revelation 2. It is actually a reference to Jezebel of the Old Testament, but really an extrapolation, saying that anyone who pushes worship of a false god of any kind is "a Jezebel" because their sin is intensely analogous to the Jezebel of 2 Kings. The Church in Thyatira, to whom Christ's comments were directed in this specific Revelation 2 passage (vv. 19-29) was well-known for tolerating false teaching and the pushing sinful things as acts of worship to false gods. And the relevance to us today is that there are "Jezebels" among us now and until Jesus returns. The warning for us is not about heresy, but about being misled and pursuing false gods and false worship, instead of pursuing and worshiping the one true God, the triune Jehovah.

Grace and peace to all.

[Eloi]

In 2 Pet. 2:1-3 the word "sect" ("heresy" in greek) is used in a very negative sense:

2 Pet. 2:1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. 2 Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. 3 Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping.

A sect is destructive when it breaks the whole group of real Christians causing divisions inside it. There is no "heresy" if there is not a group united in a single set of beliefs. It is like, if a theologian says there are different ways of interpreting the future according to the Bible, how can one of his "followers" determine the truth about the future, or be "heretic" about the future according to the Bible?

[PinSeeker]

The simple fact is that a heresy is any statement, teaching, assertion, etc. directly contrary to any statement, teaching, assertion, etc. God has made in His Word.

A heretic is one who states, teaches, asserts, etc. that any statement, teaching, assertion, etc. God has made is false and thus a lie, and propagates his or her antithetical statement, teaching, assertion, etc. as the truth.

One who merely believes what the heretic has stated, taught, asserted, etc. is not (at least at first) a heretic, but merely misled. However, he or she may become a heretic if he or she spreads that heresy, knowing that it is contrary to God's Word.

Grace and peace to all.

[tam]

Peace to you,

The simple fact is that a heresy is any statement, teaching, assertion, etc. directly contrary to any statement, teaching, assertion, etc. God has made in His Word.

Besides the truth that is it Christ who is God's Word (not the bible), the problem I see with the above definition is that most often what is meant instead is 'this statement, teaching, assertion, etc, is directly contrary to an INTERPRETATION of what is written in the bible."

Seems to me that calling someone else a heretic without being able to show that they are wrong (or telling them that they have bought into a heresy that you cannot show to be wrong)... it just sounds like an ad hominem; perhaps even a way to shame or scare someone into silence. Like a charge of 'apostasy'.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to tam in post #16]

As far as I know, Tam, nobody has called anybody a heretic in this forum. You seem to be "hearing" something coming from me (and/or others, possibly) in error. Which, frankly, is surely not a new phenomenon.

Beyond that, one who merely interprets something wrong is not calling God a liar, right? In that case, he or she is merely mistaken. Which is exactly what I said.

Grace and peace to you.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #16]

As far as I know, Tam, nobody has called anybody a heretic in this forum. You seem to be "hearing" something coming from me (and/or others, possibly) in error. Which, frankly, is surely not a new phenomenon.

Did you just read a part of what I wrote, Pinseeker? My full quote was this:

Seems to me that calling someone else a heretic without being able to show that they are wrong (or telling them that they have bought into a heresy that you cannot show to be wrong)... it just sounds like an ad hominem; perhaps even a way to shame or scare someone into silence. Like a charge of 'apostasy'.

You have indeed said the part that I bolded on this forum.


Regardless of who has said what and where, what I wrote applies in a discussion about heresy.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to tam in post #18]

Okay, I apologize. I half read it.

But, it is only your opinion that I have not shown you to be wrong. While I respect that opinion, it's... wrong.

Grace and peace to you.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #18]

Okay, I apologize.

Thank you.

I half read it.

Is that a new phenomenon?

But, it is only your opinion that I have not shown you to be wrong. While I respect that opinion, it's... wrong.

As wrong as you claimed my hearing to be, above?

(You do realize I never mentioned me in this thread at all, right? Oh... wait... lol... were your words on the other thread about buying into heresies actually meant for me? Well, instead of going back and forth in an unproductive 'that's your opinion, no that's your opinion', I'll just link to the post that lists all the exchange and leave those to stand: viewtopic.php?p=1019280#p1019280 )



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy