Jesus Sacrificing His Life

[Miles]

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In several threads I've seen here it's been said that Jesus sacrificed his life so that those who "believed in him" would gain salvation.

That a person will gain salvation is not in question, but rather the claim that Jesus, the Son of god, sacrificed, his life.

Sacrifice
verb
1. to willingly give up something one would otherwise rather keep.

"In terms of Jesus' sacrifice, anyone familiar with the Bible will first think of His sacrificial death at Calvary to atone for the sins of mankind. His crucifixion was indeed the greatest act of sacrifice in the history of the world, a perfect demonstration of His own teaching in John 15:13,"
source

Looking at the pre-existence of Jesus some say, ". . . from all eternity the Son has been enjoying the love and glory that he shares with God the Father."
source
which is as good a claim as any. Then god sent his Son down to earth where he was incarnated as Jesus in main to die for man's sins. After that was accomplished the Son returned to god where he now sits on his right hand. As sort of an analogy, it's like an American going to France for a year where he expends his energy working for the the government, and then returns to the USA to resume his life. Essentially no change in the guy from before he went to France to after he came back.

As a form of god Jesus certainly had to know what he would be doing on earth, including orchestrating events so as to be crucified. So, my question is, where is the sacrifice Jesus was supposed to have made? Everything went as he wanted them to go: swimmingly.


So, is this about it, Jesus's death was no "greatest act of sacrifice in the history of the world," or even any sacrifice at all, OR have I missed something here?



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[JehovahsWitness]

Think he wasn't aware that claiming to be the son of god was blasphemy, and deserving of punishment? Of course he was.

Claiming to be the son of God was not blasphemy.

It was against Judaic law.

Please cite the specific law you are refering to.




JW




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[DavidLeon]

Tell us what he was supposed to sacrifice and why?

You'll need to address this question to those who claim he sacrificed something. I'm not in that crowd.

I'm addressing it to you. Either you know what you're talking about or you don't.

[tam]

Peace again to you,

Peace to you,

Jesus was the Messiah and had every right to reveal himself as such. No single action or group of actions on his part merited death except in the perverted minds of his enemies.

And having an essentially divine mind, Jesus was aware of this and used it to his advantage to provoke them into him plotting a punishment, which would ultimately be his crucifixion.

Speaking truth did indeed infuriate the Jewish leaders of his day but this no more amounted to planning his own murder, than speaking out against racism meant Martin Luther King arranged to have himself shot.

Of course not, the planning had already been done by Jesus, and part of that planning was to establish his claimed Messiahship among the Jewish population, which would have spread to the ears of the Jewish authorities, including that of the High Priest. Something needed to get Pilate in on the plan. Jesus knew what would be needed to effect his crucifixion and took all the necessary steps to insure it. Think he wasn't aware that claiming to be the son of god was blasphemy, and deserving of punishment?

How is claiming to be the Son of God blasphemy?

It was against Judaic law.

Which law is that?

Your wiki blurb does not mention it.


Peace again to you!

[bjs1]

As sort of an analogy, it's like an American going to France for a year where he expends his energy working for the the government, and then returns to the USA to resume his life. Essentially no change in the guy from before he went to France to after he came back.

This is not an accurate analogy.

A more accurate analogy would be that it’s like an American billionaire who had every imaginable luxury went to France for a year to shovel manure. For that year he was homeless, exposed to the elements, looked down upon by many in society, and did difficult and unpleasant work. He suffered considerable mental and physical pain. Then he returned to the USA to resume his life.

This analogy still is insufficient, since the difference between being a billionaire verses shoveling manure is not as drastic as the difference between the eternal glory of heaven verses the pain of human life and death (death by crucifixion, none the less).

So Jesus did make a sacrifice. His sacrifice was so great that we do not have sufficient words to describe his sacrifice.

[Tcg]

Tell us what he was supposed to sacrifice and why?

You'll need to address this question to those who claim he sacrificed something. I'm not in that crowd.

I'm addressing it to you. Either you know what you're talking about or you don't.

I know exactly what I'm talking about as my posts display. You need to address your question to those who claim Jesus sacrificed his life and yet also claim he is still alive. As I've made clear, I am don't make that claim.


Tcg

[DavidLeon]

I know exactly what I'm talking about as my posts display. You need to address your question to those who claim Jesus sacrificed his life and yet also claim he is still alive. As I've made clear, I am don't make that claim.

[Sigh] I'm not interested in those right now. I'm interested in the one who made the claim that if Jesus sacrificed his life and yet is still alive his sacrifice is meaningless. That would be you.

Yes, and any discussion of the result of Jesus' sacrifice is meaningless if Jesus is still alive as many who discuss his sacrifice claim. If Jesus is still alive, he sacrificed nothing, nada, zilch.

The reason I do this is that his being alive after his sacrifice has no negative bearing on the meaning of it. So ... what he sacrificed and why would clear up any confusion you might have on the matter. His being alive is crucial to the meaning.

[Tcg]

So ... what he sacrificed and why would clear up any confusion you might have on the matter.

I have no confusion on the matter. If Jesus is alive, as some claim, he didn't sacrifice his life, as some claim.


Tcg

[DavidLeon]

So ... what he sacrificed and why would clear up any confusion you might have on the matter.

I have no confusion on the matter. If Jesus is alive, as some claim, he didn't sacrifice his life, as some claim.

I know you're giving me the runaround, but what I'm trying to get from you is why you think that that is true, because it isn't.

[Tcg]

So ... what he sacrificed and why would clear up any confusion you might have on the matter.

I have no confusion on the matter. If Jesus is alive, as some claim, he didn't sacrifice his life, as some claim.

I know you're giving me the runaround, but what I'm trying to get from you is why you think that that is true, because it isn't.

There is no runaround as your Ad Hominem would suggest. It's not complicated. I think it is true because I've never met any dead people who are alive.


Tcg

[DavidLeon]

There is no runaround as your Ad Hominem would suggest. It's not complicated. I think it is true because I've never met any dead people who are alive.

It's incidental. His life wasn't being sacrificed, his blood was. He wasn't resurrected in his former body he was resurrected in a new body. So he did die and it is significant that he was resurrected because he showed that, after certainly being dead, he was raised again as we will be.