Biblical Morality

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Miles
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Biblical Morality

Post #1

Post by Miles »

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"1. According to the Bible I understand that I am free to own slaves. Naturally, I must abide by God’s perfect laws on how to beat them, how to sell them and how to pass them to my children when I die.
Now the Bible says I can buy slaves from strangers but I live in a city where almost everyone is a stranger. Does this mean I can buy from anyone, or does it mean I can only buy from foreigners, like the Canadians or Mexicans?


2. I have two unmarried daughters. If either of them should be raped in the countryside, I know she will have to marry her rapist and may never get divorced but I was just wondering about the penalty the rapist should pay. The Bible says 50 Shekels of silver but should we take account of inflation? And how much would that be in dollars?


3. If I buy a man’s daughter as a sex slave and if she is no good in bed, I know I can pass her on to my son. But, if she fails to please my son too, I am obliged to sell her back to her father. In this case, should I insist on getting a full refund, or is there a discount for wear and tear?


4. My son does sometimes go out with his friends drinking and from time-to-time answers me back. Reading the holy scriptures, I see I have been too lenient with him. Next time it happens, I’ll take him to the outskirts of the town with some other men and we’ll stone him to death. I see now that is the most moral thing to do.
But the Bible is a bit scant on details, it doesn’t advise what size stones to throw at him. Small ones would allow him to suffer longer and large ones would get the job done quicker. Can Bible experts offer any advice?


5. My neighbor is a doctor in a hospital, and I often see him sneaking out of the house on the Sabbath to go to work. I know I should stone him to death for this evil but there are so few stones in my locality. Would it be acceptable to beat him to death with a baseball bat?

6. Most legal systems in the world presume people are innocent until proven guilty but the Bible has it the other way round—we are presumed guilty from birth. Should we incorporate that Biblical principle into U.S. law?"
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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #21

Post by Menotu »

Miles wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:19 pm .


"1. According to the Bible I understand that I am free to own slaves. Naturally, I must abide by God’s perfect laws on how to beat them, how to sell them and how to pass them to my children when I die.
Now the Bible says I can buy slaves from strangers but I live in a city where almost everyone is a stranger. Does this mean I can buy from anyone, or does it mean I can only buy from foreigners, like the Canadians or Mexicans?


2. I have two unmarried daughters. If either of them should be raped in the countryside, I know she will have to marry her rapist and may never get divorced but I was just wondering about the penalty the rapist should pay. The Bible says 50 Shekels of silver but should we take account of inflation? And how much would that be in dollars?


3. If I buy a man’s daughter as a sex slave and if she is no good in bed, I know I can pass her on to my son. But, if she fails to please my son too, I am obliged to sell her back to her father. In this case, should I insist on getting a full refund, or is there a discount for wear and tear?


4. My son does sometimes go out with his friends drinking and from time-to-time answers me back. Reading the holy scriptures, I see I have been too lenient with him. Next time it happens, I’ll take him to the outskirts of the town with some other men and we’ll stone him to death. I see now that is the most moral thing to do.
But the Bible is a bit scant on details, it doesn’t advise what size stones to throw at him. Small ones would allow him to suffer longer and large ones would get the job done quicker. Can Bible experts offer any advice?


5. My neighbor is a doctor in a hospital, and I often see him sneaking out of the house on the Sabbath to go to work. I know I should stone him to death for this evil but there are so few stones in my locality. Would it be acceptable to beat him to death with a baseball bat?

6. Most legal systems in the world presume people are innocent until proven guilty but the Bible has it the other way round—we are presumed guilty from birth. Should we incorporate that Biblical principle into U.S. law?"
source

.

Anyone looking to a book for morality has more issues than needing to question their sense (or lack thereof) morality. The bible is no more (or less) moral than the Harry Potter series IMO.

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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #22

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Menotu wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:49 am The bible is no more (or less) moral than the Harry Potter series IMO.
I'm sure Harry Porter has some good principles that can be gleaned from its pages, the bible however exists on a far higher level as it contains direct commands, guidelines and instructions for how to gain a relationship with one's Creator. Comparing the fictional children's nouvel to scared scripture, is like comparing a three-year old's finger painting to the sistine chapel.






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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #23

Post by AgnosticBoy »

[Replying to Menotu in post #21]

Perhaps we can say that morals of the Bible are just as unproven as a Harry Potter book, or that both are contained in a book, but there are some important differences. The biblical writers also claim to be getting their message from God. The only factor that keeps me from taking that claim seriously is lack of evidence, and not if it was documented in some book.

Much of what Miles brings up is disputable. The Christians will probably tell you that only the 'moral' law applies in the New Testament. The punishments, the animal sacrifices for sin, and probably much of the civil or societal laws (arranged marriages, dowry, etc.) no longer apply. If the punishments still applied then we'd all be dead, and no one would be available to throw the first stone.
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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #24

Post by Menotu »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
Menotu wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 11:49 am The bible is no more (or less) moral than the Harry Potter series IMO.
I'm sure Harry Porter has some good principles that can be gleaned from its pages, the bible however exists on a far higher level as it contains direct commands, guidelines and instructions for how to gain a relationship with one's Creator. Comparing the fictional children's nouvel to scared scripture, is like comparing a three-year old's finger painting to the sistine chapel.








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What some consider the sistine chapel others consider not worth more than C roll on its best day in Hollywood.
But I suppose if you're into burning to death, drowning, stoning and fanatical supernatural healings all with a wh*re thrown in for good measure, the bible might be for you.

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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #25

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
I'm sure Harry Porter has some good principles that can be gleaned from its pages, the bible however exists on a far higher level as it contains direct commands, guidelines and instructions for how to gain a relationship with one's Creator. Comparing the fictional children's nouvel to scared scripture, is like comparing a three-year old's finger painting to the sistine chapel.
A far higher level of decreed authority for certain. The followers of the god of Abraham decided that he alone should have ultimate powers. Why? Because he said so. And why should anyone care what he says? Because he will punish anyone who doesn't care. And why believe in such a vindictive god? Because people buy into the obvious contradiction that he's an all-loving deity who is ready to help aleviate their suffering if they jump through certain hoops. Don't jump through these hoops however,---Worship him. Have no other gods before him. Fear him. Keep all his commandments. Accept His Son as one's Savior. etc. etc.--- and you'll likely spend the rest of your existence burning in hell. And that's millions upon millions of earth years of continual ouch! OUCH! ouch!


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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #26

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:27 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
I'm sure Harry Porter has some good principles that can be gleaned from its pages, the bible however exists on a far higher level as it contains direct commands, guidelines and instructions for how to gain a relationship with one's Creator. Comparing the fictional children's nouvel to scared scripture, is like comparing a three-year old's finger painting to the sistine chapel.
A far higher level of decreed authority for certain. The followers of the god of Abraham decided that he alone should have ultimate powers. Why? Because he said so. And why should anyone care what he says? Because he will punish anyone who doesn't care. And why believe in such a vindictive god? Because people buy into the obvious contradiction that he's an all-loving deity who is ready to help aleviate their suffering if they jump through certain hoops. Don't jump through these hoops however,---Worship him. Have no other gods before him. Fear him. Keep all his commandments. Accept His Son as one's Savior. etc. etc.--- and you'll likely spend the rest of your existence burning in hell. And that's millions upon millions of earth years of continual ouch! OUCH! ouch!


.


God's dealings with Abraham is an outstanding example of excellent moral judgement as far as I am concerned, I see nothing in the accounts but the highhtest and most honorable of principles. A good example of the bibles superiority to all other literature in my opinion.

As far as your comments, you they heavily influenced by the teachings of Christendom and you seem to veer wildly from the actual text to what I can only presume to be childood indocrination. In any case, your conclusion are entirely your own and arguably have little to do with the OP.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #27

Post by Menotu »

Miles wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:19 pm .


"1. According to the Bible I understand that I am free to own slaves. Naturally, I must abide by God’s perfect laws on how to beat them, how to sell them and how to pass them to my children when I die.
Now the Bible says I can buy slaves from strangers but I live in a city where almost everyone is a stranger. Does this mean I can buy from anyone, or does it mean I can only buy from foreigners, like the Canadians or Mexicans?


2. I have two unmarried daughters. If either of them should be raped in the countryside, I know she will have to marry her rapist and may never get divorced but I was just wondering about the penalty the rapist should pay. The Bible says 50 Shekels of silver but should we take account of inflation? And how much would that be in dollars?


3. If I buy a man’s daughter as a sex slave and if she is no good in bed, I know I can pass her on to my son. But, if she fails to please my son too, I am obliged to sell her back to her father. In this case, should I insist on getting a full refund, or is there a discount for wear and tear?


4. My son does sometimes go out with his friends drinking and from time-to-time answers me back. Reading the holy scriptures, I see I have been too lenient with him. Next time it happens, I’ll take him to the outskirts of the town with some other men and we’ll stone him to death. I see now that is the most moral thing to do.
But the Bible is a bit scant on details, it doesn’t advise what size stones to throw at him. Small ones would allow him to suffer longer and large ones would get the job done quicker. Can Bible experts offer any advice?


5. My neighbor is a doctor in a hospital, and I often see him sneaking out of the house on the Sabbath to go to work. I know I should stone him to death for this evil but there are so few stones in my locality. Would it be acceptable to beat him to death with a baseball bat?

6. Most legal systems in the world presume people are innocent until proven guilty but the Bible has it the other way round—we are presumed guilty from birth. Should we incorporate that Biblical principle into U.S. law?"
source

.
The bible is so vague and open to interpretation that one can find just about anything justified therein. Outside of real, actual abuse, those that use the bible to condemn others are pointless and should be shunned by society IMO.
Those that use the bible to do things like pass laws for everyone in the country should be railed against as much as possible, especially legally.

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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #28

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:07 am
Miles wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 4:27 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Nov 05, 2020 12:32 pm
I'm sure Harry Porter has some good principles that can be gleaned from its pages, the bible however exists on a far higher level as it contains direct commands, guidelines and instructions for how to gain a relationship with one's Creator. Comparing the fictional children's nouvel to scared scripture, is like comparing a three-year old's finger painting to the sistine chapel.
A far higher level of decreed authority for certain. The followers of the god of Abraham decided that he alone should have ultimate powers. Why? Because he said so. And why should anyone care what he says? Because he will punish anyone who doesn't care. And why believe in such a vindictive god? Because people buy into the obvious contradiction that he's an all-loving deity who is ready to help aleviate their suffering if they jump through certain hoops. Don't jump through these hoops however,---Worship him. Have no other gods before him. Fear him. Keep all his commandments. Accept His Son as one's Savior. etc. etc.--- and you'll likely spend the rest of your existence burning in hell. And that's millions upon millions of earth years of continual ouch! OUCH! ouch!

God's dealings with Abraham is an outstanding example of excellent moral judgement as far as I am concerned, I see nothing in the accounts but the highhtest and most honorable of principles. A good example of the bibles superiority to all other literature in my opinion.
And, an other "outstanding example of excellent moral judgement" is condoning the ownership and subjugation of other human beings: slavery. Nice guy! Image Hell, even died-in-the-wool fundies don't condone slavery anymore.

JehovahsWitness wrote: As far as your comments, you they heavily influenced by the teachings of Christendom
Only because that's who takes OT & NT Biblical morality to heart.

JehovahsWitness wrote: and you seem to veer wildly from the actual text to what I can only presume to be childood indocrination. In any case, your conclusion are entirely your own and arguably have little to do with the OP.
Perhaps, but I'm not referring to only actual text, but Christian teachings as well. And while my conclusions are my own, they echo those of many others I've been in contact with. I am certainly not the only one who sees the Christian story of belief as I do.

But out of curiosity, just where do you see me to seemingly veer off?




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Last edited by Miles on Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #29

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:44 pm But out of curiosity, just where do you see me to seemingly veer off?
It seems to me that the OP was dealing with the relevance and morality of Hebrew law, not any supposed punishment in Christian theology.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Biblical Morality

Post #30

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:58 pm
Miles wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:44 pm But out of curiosity, just where do you see me to seemingly veer off?
It seems to me that the OP was dealing with the relevance and morality of Hebrew law, not any supposed punishment in Christian theology.
I thought it was pretty much all god's Old Testament morality that was likely written in Hebrew (New Testament morality having been written in Greek), not any morality of the laws the Hebrews originated. And as far as any punishment in Christian theology goes, we both know what it's based on, Old and New Testament writings of "Do this" and "Don't do that."


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