You MUST be born again

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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

myth-one.com
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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #531

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:18 am
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:06 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:54 am
Your questions all assume your view is correct, which says:

"those born of the Spirit are spiritual bodied beings."

I don't assume or think that.

So to answer is pointless, and can never satisfy you.

Sorry about that, chief!

That "view" did not originate with me.
John was quoting Jesus Christ when John wrote:
. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Tell Jesus you're sorry, not me.

Let Jesus know how to correct His incorrect description of those born of the Spirit.

Those born of the Spirit are ________ ( what ) ____ !
It's supposed to remain a secret between us, but I'll just answer a little, one more time:

Those born of the Spirit are born again/ born of God.
That's correct. Those born of the Spirit are born again/ born of God. Good start.

And those born again of God are spirits.

But no humans are spirits.

Thus no human Christian has been born again of the Spirit to this date.
Checkpoint wrote:As confirmed by Peter and John, as existing then, without mention or any need for them to have become "spiritual bodied beings".

John was a good and reliable writer, and you seem to like what he writes.

So here is some of what he wrote, about his fellow believers.

Who and what they are, and what sets them apart from unbelievers, and why.

All from 1 John.

3:9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
That's your best shot??

That's so incredibly, incredibly, pathetic.

Your making my case that no human has been born again as the Spirit -- because they all continue in sin.

==========================================

Here's how that logic goes:

Believers born again of the Spirit no longer sin (from 1 John).

All believers continue in sin.

Therefore, no believers have been born again of the Spirit.

-------- End of Proof -------

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The Tanager
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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #532

Post by The Tanager »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:15 am That's your best shot??

That's so incredibly, incredibly, pathetic.
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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #533

Post by Checkpoint »

[[url=./viewtopic.php?p=1035695#p1035695]Replying to myth-one.com in post #531[/url

Checkpoint wrote:

John was a good and reliable writer, and you seem to like what he writes.

So here is some of what he wrote, about his fellow believers.

Who and what they are, and what sets them apart from unbelievers, and why.

All from 1 John.

3:9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.[/quote]
That's your best shot??

That's so incredibly, incredibly, pathetic.

Your making my case that no human has been born again as the Spirit -- because they all continue in sin.

==========================================

Here's how that logic goes:

Believers born again of the Spirit no longer sin (from 1 John).

All believers continue in sin
.

Therefore, no believers have been born again of the Spirit.

-------- End of Proof ------
Thank you, myth-one.com.

You make it so very easy.

John does not say what you claim he said.

He does not say those born of God "no longer sin(are sinless)".

Rather, he says "Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin".

He states that this is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil, who do "not(in contrast) practice righteousness".

-------end of refutation------

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #534

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:05 pm
Checkpoint wrote:

John was a good and reliable writer, and you seem to like what he writes.

So here is some of what he wrote, about his fellow believers.

Who and what they are, and what sets them apart from unbelievers, and why.

All from 1 John.

3:9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Your making my case that no human has been born again as the Spirit -- because they all continue in sin.

==========================================

Here's how that logic goes:

Believers born again of the Spirit no longer sin (from 1 John).

All believers continue in sin
.

Therefore, no believers have been born again of the Spirit.

-------- End of Proof ------
Checkpoint wrote:Thank you, myth-one.com.

You make it so very easy.

John does not say what you claim he said.

He does not say those born of God "no longer sin(are sinless)".

Rather, he says "Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin".

He states that this is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil, who do "not(in contrast) practice righteousness".

-------end of refutation------
That just requires a slight modification:

Here's how that logic goes:

Believers born again of the Spirit no longer practice sin (from 1 John).

All believers are humans and humans practice sin.

Therefore, no believers have been born again of the Spirit.

End of proof -- version two.

Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #535

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:10 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:05 pm
Checkpoint wrote:

John was a good and reliable writer, and you seem to like what he writes.

So here is some of what he wrote, about his fellow believers.

Who and what they are, and what sets them apart from unbelievers, and why.

All from 1 John.

3:9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.
Your making my case that no human has been born again as the Spirit -- because they all continue in sin.

==========================================

Here's how that logic goes:

Believers born again of the Spirit no longer sin (from 1 John).

All believers continue in sin
.

Therefore, no believers have been born again of the Spirit.

-------- End of Proof ------
Checkpoint wrote:Thank you, myth-one.com.

You make it so very easy.

John does not say what you claim he said.

He does not say those born of God "no longer sin(are sinless)".

Rather, he says "Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin".

He states that this is what distinguishes the children of God from the children of the devil, who do "not(in contrast) practice righteousness".

-------end of refutation------
That just requires a slight modification:

Here's how that logic goes:

Believers born again of the Spirit no longer practice sin (from 1 John).

All believers are humans and humans practice sin.

Therefore, no believers have been born again of the Spirit.

End of proof -- version two.
"humans practice sin"?

Perhaps, but those born of God refuse to, according to John.

John is a good writer, but is so much more than that.

An Apostle with decades of experience. A spiritual father who cared deeply for those who were children of God.

He knew very well who and what he wrote about.

Including this:

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1 John 5:1,4
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth him also that is born of Him.
End of refutation of proof, Version 2

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #536

Post by thomasdixon »

I got a laugh,
Its been awile since the truth be told
As a joke

You Must Be Born again

Is an oxymoron statement to make.,. as I se it
ox·y·mo·ron
/ˌäksəˈmôrˌän/
noun
a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true
You only live once
spend your time wisely

.,.,.,,.,the clock is ticking.,.,,.,.,
:)

Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #537

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #531]


John was quoting Jesus Christ when John wrote:

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Tell Jesus you're sorry, not me.

Let Jesus know how to correct His incorrect description of those born of the Spirit.

Those born of the Spirit are ________ ( what?
Those born of the Spirit are born again/ born of God.
That's correct. Those born of the Spirit are born again/ born of God. Good start.

And those born again of God are spirits.
It was a plus to agree on something, yes.

But in doing so we had already strayed from what Jesus specifically said in verse 6.

Your question began with "Those", and ended with "are spirits".

Jesus began with "That which is", and ended with "is spirit".

A major difference. A major deviation.

From singular to plural. From things to persons/beings.

Maybe we need to start again; this time at the actual words we find in verse 6.

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You MUST be born again

Post #538

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #1]
How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?
He taught Nicodemus one simple truth.

That to be able to see the kingdom(and enter it), he must be born again.

Is that clear enough? Yes, but also no!
s
You ee, when anyone hears or reads the words "see", "the kingdom", and "born again", they will ask, "what does that mean?", or assume how each expression is used, and should only be used in that way.

For example, someone may only be aware of, or allow for, "see", as being something we visually see with our physical eyes.

If they also understand "the kingdom" is something not here at present, but is only something future.....who knows where that may lead one regarding "born again".

I understand this teaching to be about how one enters into spiritual life from having been dead inwardly.

We pass from death to life when we connect with God who is eternal life, which triggers our repentance and faith.

Thus we have changed kingdoms and fathers.

We have been born again, into the family of God.

It is what we celebrate and proclaim at our water baptism.

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