You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[myth-one.com]

You have the Holy Spirit in you. Does that mean you therefore have the anointing?

Sure.

Is God, who is Spirit, now within you as a believer?

Absolutely!

Great!

Doesn't that mean we belong to the same family as children of God?

Yes, we are children of God and joint-heirs with Jesus:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

What is your point?

We are flesh and blood creatures living in the physical or natural world.

God and the angels are spiritual beings living in the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

Thus we must be born again as the only other type of being, a spiritual bodied being, to enter the Kingdom of God.

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Do you possess a physical body?

If you do, you have not been born again of the Spirit!

Jesus, Himself, confirms this fact:

Luke 24:39

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #388]

Believers must be born of the Spirit to become a spirit, as flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

We are presently heirs to salvation:

When believers are born again, of the Spirit, they do not "become a spirit", they become children of God.

Yes, they are presently heirs.

How does a believer become an heir?

Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)

Notice that Christians become "children of the resurrection." That is, they are born again at the resurrection.

No, they are "children of the resurrection because they are already the born again children of God.

It is an actual, real experience, not simply some emotional occurrence experienced during your physical life on earth.

The experiences we have as we live our physical life here, are all "an actual, real experience".

Especially one that takes out of the dominion of darkness and into the kingdom of light. One that makes God;s children, and, as such, heirs of what our new Father, the father of spirits, promises us.

What does the Bible state we must become to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)

Jesus in this scripture specifies a major part of what the being born again experience is.

That is, real and actual conversion, and becoming as teachable and trusting as a little child is.

We are born again as spiritual, immortal bodies, as opposed to our present physical, mortal bodies. We are new spirits, and thus spiritual "children."

This blessed birth occurs at the resurrection, thus we are children of the resurrection.

No birth occurs at the resurrection.

It occurs before the believer dies, and makes each one a child of God, and thus qualifies them to be "children of the resurrection".

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #388]

Believers must be born of the Spirit to become a spirit, as flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.

When believers are born again, of the Spirit, they do not "become a spirit", they become children of God.

You are contradicting the words of God:

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

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How does a believer become an heir?

Mortal humans become heirs to everlasting life by believing in Jesus as their Savior. Whosoever believeth shall inherit everlasting spiritual bodied life.

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Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)

Notice that Christians become "children of the resurrection." That is, they are born again at the resurrection.

No, they are "children of the resurrection because they are already the born again children of God.

1) If believers have already been born again of the Spirit into everlasting life, why would they need to be resurrected?

2) If believers have already been born again of the Spirit, where are they -- as there is no place prepared for them?

3) If living believers have already been born again of the Spirit, why are they still in their physical bodies?

Jesus said spirits do not have flesh and bones. Living human Christians do have flesh and bones.

Therefore, either Christians have not yet been born again, or Jesus got that wrong!

=====================================================

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)

Jesus in this scripture specifies a major part of what the being born again experience is.

That is, real and actual conversion, and becoming as teachable and trusting as a little child is.

The "born again experience" is a birth into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Newborns are children without any sins imputed against them.

=================================================

We are born again as spiritual, immortal bodies, as opposed to our present physical, mortal bodies. We are new spirits, and thus spiritual "children."

This blessed birth occurs at the resurrection, thus we are children of the resurrection.

No birth occurs at the resurrection.

It occurs before the believer dies, and made each one a child of God, and thus qualified them to be children of the resurrection.

Believers are resurrected with spiritual bodies at the resurrection. The Christian body that is sown is a natural body, and the body that is raised is a spiritual body!

And Jesus states that spiritual bodies are the result of spiritual births:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

If natural Christian bodies are sown, and spiritual Christian bodies are resurrected, then those Christians were born again as spirits after their burial.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #393]

Checkpoint wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:08 pm
[Replying to myth-one.com in post #388]

Believers must be born of the Spirit to become a spirit, as flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
Checkpoint wrote: ↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:08 pm
When believers are born again, of the Spirit, they do not "become a spirit", they become children of God.

You are contradicting the words of God:

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

No, I am contradicting your interpretation of the words of God found in John 3:6.

This misinterpretation has led to its misapplication into the future as being the resurrection of believers as newly born spirits.

It directly and constantly contradicts the usage and meaning of "born again", or "born of God", in the New Testament.

Here is but one example:

1 John 3:

9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

[myth-one.com]

When believers are born again, of the Spirit, they do not "become a spirit", . . .

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

How are these two statements not contradictory?

[Checkpoint]

When believers are born again, of the Spirit, they do not "become a spirit", . . .

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

How are these two statements not contradictory?

An excellent question.

On the surface - "is spirit" is not the same as, and does not mean the same as, "is a spirit".

Adding the word "a" results in a usage that contradicts the meaning intended by the actual unaltered sentence.

Going deeper - verse 6 is part of Jesus conversation with Nicodemus. Two teachers, but one is teaching and the other is hoping to learn something.

Jesus was addressing Nicodemus as "you", which is quite specific and personal.

But he does not do so in verse 6 because he was then teaching a general principle rather than a personal or specific application.

So he did not start by saying "you must", but instead said "that which is"This phrase makes it abundantly clear he is stating a general principle that flesh and spirit have in common.

And what is it they have in common?

God's "after their kind" principle and/or Jesus "by their fruit" principle. What those born will bring forth(birth) or manifest is evident, and a reliable guide.

Matthew 7:

16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus, by their fruit you shall know them.

Verse 6 is a general principle, not about a specific or literal entity, but the nature of flesh and spirit..

Adding that "a" complicates and contradicts this, by making the sentence say what it does not intend.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #397]

Can a human being enter the Kingdom of God?

Definition of human being: a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #391]

Do you possess a physical body?

If you do, you have not been born again of the Spirit!

Living in a physical body in no way means we cannot be, or have not been, born again, of the Spirit, or of God.

Scripture does not lie. The apostle John tells the truth.

1 John 4:

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #393]

Checkpoint wrote:

↑Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:08 pm
No, they are "children of the resurrection because they are already the born again children of God.

1) If believers have already been born again of the Spirit into everlasting life, why would they need to be resurrected?

2) If believers have already been born again of the Spirit, where are they -- as there is no place prepared for them?

3) If living believers have already been born again of the Spirit, why are they still in their physical bodies?

1) Because they were born again into this new life of faith; not yet of sight, as children of God the Father.

The body they now live in is but a tent for the short life they now have here. But the day will come when they are given the new eternal house to live in.

Here is how Paul puts it:

2 Corinthians 5:

1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands.

2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Beautiful.

2) Right here:

Revelation 12:

6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God

And here:

Hebrews 11:

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.

16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.

3) Because that is God's way. First the inward, then the outward.

We walk by faith, not yet by sight.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #391]

Do you possess a physical body?

If you do, you have not been born again of the Spirit!

Living in a physical body in no way means we cannot be, or have not been, born again, of the Spirit, or of God.

Scripture does not lie. The apostle John tells the truth.

1 John 4:

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Being born again of the Spirit in regards to everlasting life, means that we are born as everlasting spiritual bodies like the angels have.

When that occurs at the Second Coming, we have no further need for any physical body. A physical body would be a handicap.

The Bible recognizes this fact and indeed states that the natural body comes first and the spiritual comes last:

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

So if you have a physical body, you have not yet been born again as a spiritual bodied being into the Kingdom of God.