You MUST be born again

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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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You MUST be born again

Post #401

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:15 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 5:49 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #390]
Do you possess a physical body?

If you do, you have not been born again of the Spirit!
Living in a physical body in no way means we cannot be, or have not been, born again, of the Spirit, or of God.

Scripture does not lie. The apostle John tells the truth.

1 John 4:
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
Being born again of the Spirit in regards to everlasting life, means that we are born as everlasting spiritual bodies like the angels have.

When that occurs at the Second Coming, we have no further need for any physical body. A physical body would be a handicap.

The Bible recognizes this fact and indeed states that the natural body comes first and the spiritual comes last:

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

So if you have a physical body, you have not yet been born again as a spiritual bodied being into the Kingdom of God.
However many times you weave your story together, you can never make it true as being what "born again" is, or when and for what reason it occurs.

The scriptural truth about being born again is neither erased nor affected by simply ignoring it.

2 Timothy 2:15

Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

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You MUST be born again

Post #402

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #393]
The "born again experience" is a birth into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Newborns are children without any sins imputed against them.
Yeah, that's where believers are at now, in this life and in this body.

Colossians 1:

12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.

13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Romans 14:]
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit[/quote]

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #403

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:12 am [Replying to myth-one.com in post #393]
The "born again experience" is a birth into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Newborns are children without any sins imputed against them.
Yeah, that's where believers are at now, in this life and in this body.
You're back to being an angel!

The crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God is called blasphemy in the Bible. You're assuming the godly characteristic of immortality to yourself.

Angels can sin, so that's probably OK.
======================================================

Since you have already been born again as an everlasting spiritual bodied being, you are forced to live forever.

You cannot possibly die.

So once again, there is absolutely no reason for you to be resurrected at the Second Coming!!

Just skip that redundant unnecessary step.

In fact, you will be alive and can observe that incredible process!

Oh well, enjoy moving as the wind.

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You MUST be born a

Post #404

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:22 am
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:12 am [Replying to myth-one.com in post #393]
The "born again experience" is a birth into the spiritual Kingdom of God.

Newborns are children without any sins imputed against them.
Yeah, that's where believers are at now, in this life and in this body.
You're back to being an angel!

The crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God is called blasphemy in the Bible. You're assuming the godly characteristic of immortality to yourself.

Angels can sin, so that's probably OK.
======================================================

Since you have already been born again as an everlasting spiritual bodied being, you are forced to live forever.

You cannot possibly die.

So once again, there is absolutely no reason for you to be resurrected at the Second Coming!!

Just skip that redundant unnecessary step.

In fact, you will be alive and can observe that incredible process!

Oh well, enjoy moving as the wind.
Welcome to your surreal world.

A world that is a strange and garbled mixture of truth and fiction.

A world of misinterpretation and misapplication of scripture.

A world of avoiding and ignoring verses that demonstrate the true interpretation and application.

A world of misreading and misusing what another poster had written.

A world of assumptions that lead the reader on a merry dance into a new fairy-tale.

That is the world I enter by reading your posts on this thread. At those times I am in your world, but not of it.

So thanks, but no thanks, myth-one.com!

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You MUST be born again

Post #405

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #391]

Checkpoint wrote:
Is God, who is Spirit, now within you as a believer?[/quote]
Absolutely!
Checkpoint wrote:

Great!

Doesn't that mean we belong to the same family, as children of God?
Yes, we are children of God and joint-heirs with Jesus:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

What is your point?
Thanks for asking!

Before I answer, in another I understand you also have, or have had, the anointing as written about in 1 John.

My point is this:

You agree you have the Holy Spirit within, you have the anointing, and you are a child of God and therefore are an heir as part of God's family.

.Ok, I therefore ask you these two questions:

1) How can you become a child of God, have the Holy Spirit within this body, and the anointing, yet have not been, in this body, born again of the Spirit?

2) How come you can accept what John says about the anointing, and at the same time reject or ignore what John says about being born of God, in this life, in this body?



,

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #406

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 pmIs God, who is Spirit, now within you as a believer?
Myth-one.com wrote:Absolutely!
Checkpoint wrote:Great!

Doesn't that mean we belong to the same family, as children of God?
Myth-one.com wrote:Yes, we are children of God and joint-heirs with Jesus:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

What is your point?
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 pmThanks for asking!

Before I answer, in another I understand you also have, or have had, the anointing as written about in 1 John.

My point is this:

You agree you have the Holy Spirit within, you have the anointing, and you are a child of God and therefore are an heir as part of God's family.

.Ok, I therefore ask you these two questions:

1) How can you become a child of God, have the Holy Spirit within this body, and the anointing, yet have not been, in this body, born again of the Spirit?
Believers are children of God in that they are joint heirs with Jesus under the New Testament Covenant.

Our inheritance under the New Testament Covenant is everlasting life.

The only life which lasts forever is spiritual life.

To become a spiritual being we must be born of the Spirit.

==============================================

The Holy Spirit is a spiritual being on the earth to aide and comfort earthly human believers. One can be filled with the Holy Spirit and not yet Born again of the Spirit -- as a spirit.

=============================================

All believers are anointed to become inheritors of everlasting life when the New Testament is probated.

That will be at the Second Coming when Jesus brings our reward of everlasting life.

That is when all believers (living or dead) will be born again of the Spirit as everlasting spiritual bodied beings -- equal unto the angels.

===========================================
Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 pm2) How come you can accept what John says about the anointing, and at the same time reject or ignore what John says about being born of God, in this life, in this body?
John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.

The Bible states that the natural and spiritual bodies come in an order -- the natural first and the spiritual last.

The Bible also states that Believers gain spiritual bodies at the Second Coming.

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You MUST be born again

Post #407

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #406]


Checkpoint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 pm
2) How come you can accept what John says about the anointing, and at the same time reject or ignore what John says about being born of God, in this life, in this body?[/u]
John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.
Let me tell you why "John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit."

He never writes about "when anyone will be born again of the Spirit."

He never does what you always do - make it a future event, a "will be" that does not, and cannot, occur in this life, in this present body.

On the contrary he always puts it in the present or past tense.
Happening in this life, in this body.

The following is some of what he wrote about being born again. There is more.
1 John 3:9
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #408

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:40 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #406]
Checkpoint wrote:2) How come you can accept what John says about the anointing, and at the same time reject or ignore what John says about being born of God, in this life, in this body?
Myth-one.com wrote:John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.
Checkpoint wrote:Let me tell you why "John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit."

He never writes about "when anyone will be born again of the Spirit."

He never does what you always do - make it a future event, a "will be" that does not, and cannot, occur in this life, in this present body.
Okay, we agree that John never writes about "when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.
Checkpoint wrote:On the contrary he always puts it in the present or past tense.
Happening in this life, in this body.
So immediately after agreeing that John never writes about when anyone will be born again of the Spirit, you claim that John writes that it will happen in this life in this body.

That is, he does not write about the time of our being born again of the Spirit, and he writes about the time of our being born again of the Spirit.

Please chose one or the other, not both.
Checkpoint wrote:The following is some of what he wrote about being born again. There is more.
1 John 3:9
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

This verse describes no living humans. So no one has been born again of the Spirit.
===========================================

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

So believers, nonbelievers, and even atheists can be born again of the Spirit.
=========================================

1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.[/quote]

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ that has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father, also loves those those born of Him.

Basically, if you love the Father, you love the Son also.

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You MUST be born again

Post #409

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:42 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 6:40 pm [[url=./viewtopic.php?p=1033619#p1033619]Replying to myth-one.com in post #408/url]]
Checkpoint wrote:2) How come you can accept what John says about the anointing, and at the same time reject or ignore what John says about being born of God, in this life, in this body?
Myth-one.com wrote:John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.
Checkpoint wrote:Let me tell you why "John never says when anyone will be born again of the Spirit."

He never writes about "when anyone will be born again of the Spirit."

He never does what you always do - make it a future event, a "will be" that does not, and cannot, occur in this life, in this present body.
Okay, we agree that John never writes about "when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.
Thanks.
Checkpoint wrote:On the contrary he always puts it in the present or past tense.
Happening in this life, in this body.
So immediately after agreeing that John never writes about when anyone will be born again of the Spirit, you claim that John writes that it will happen in this life in this body.

That is, he does not write about the time of our being born again of the Spirit, and he writes about the time of our being born again of the Spirit.

Please chose one or the other, not both.
Whatever. You're dancing on a pin - me!

This is about what John wrote, not about what I wrote.
Checkpoint wrote:The following is some of what he wrote about being born again. There is more.

1 John 3:9
Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God's seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
This verse describes no living humans. So no one has been born again of the Spirit.
Can you keep a straight face?

The verse is from a long letter to living believers, all of whom were then alive humans. They refused to practice sin because they had been born of God.
===========================================
1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
So believers, nonbelievers, and even atheists can be born again of the Spirit.
Brilliant!

You have added to the verse what is not there at all.

Nothing becomes so by doing a magic trick - pulling some things from your glove.


=========================================
1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father also loves those born of Him.
Basically, if you love the Father, you love the Son also.
Nope. Now you are squirming.

There is nothing in this verse that states they "love the Son also". Zilch.


You have done it again - added to Scripture.
Believers in Jesus Anointed have been born of God. Those who love the Father love those born of Him.

It's simple and it's clear, but it makes you squirm.

All you can do, basically, is try and hide, and hide from, the truth John often writes about.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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You MUST be born again

Post #410

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #408]
Okay, we agree that John never writes about "when anyone will be born again of the Spirit.
Checkpoint wrote:
On the contrary he always puts it in the present or past tense.
Happening in this life, in this body.
So immediately after agreeing that John never writes about when anyone will be born again of the Spirit, you claim that John writes that it will happen in this life in this body.

That is, he does not write about the time of our being born again of the Spirit, and he writes about the time of our being born again of the Spirit.

Please chose one or the other, not both.
Well actually, I do choose both.

Because there is no contradiction in what I wrote. You found one in what you wrote about what I wrote, by twice saying "the time", and once, earlier, "when"..

John wrote this: "has been born of God".

Which sadly, you refuse to accept as written by him, and known by him.

Shifting sand is so far from a solid foundation.

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