You MUST be born again

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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #411

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 pm
1) How can you become a child of God, have the Holy Spirit within this body, and the anointing, yet have not been, in this body, born again of the Spirit?
1 John 3 King James Version

3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


We (Christians) are called the sons of God.

We do not know how we will appear, or how we shall be when born again of the Spirit, as we cannot understand the spiritual world.

What we do know is that when He shall appear again, we shall be made like Him.

So John understood that we will be made everlasting spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming.

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You MUST be born again

Post #412

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #411]

Checkpoint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:23 pm
1) How can you become a child of God, have the Holy Spirit within this body, and the anointing, yet have not been, in this body, born again of the Spirit?
Thanks for your post.

It did not answer the question I ask.

Please do so, directly and clearly, if you can manage that.

Blessings.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #413

Post by myth-one.com »


Replying to myth-one.com in post #281. Checkpoint wrote:Jesus was telling Nicodemus what his problem was, and what was needed to solve it. Not in a future life, but here and now.

1 John 3 King James Version

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


According to John, believers will be born again of the Spirit at the Second Coming!

Until that time, we are heirs to everlasting life, not participants in everlasting life.


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You MUST be born again

Post #414

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:35 am
Replying to myth-one.com in post #281. Checkpoint wrote:Jesus was telling Nicodemus what his problem was, and what was needed to solve it. Not in a future life, but here and now.

1 John 3 King James Version

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.



Until that time, we are heirs to everlasting life, not participants in everlasting life.]\]\\]
[/quote]


Ok, let's redo what you have done in your last two posts, and see where that leads us.

You start here with Nicodemus, quote from John as an authority, and then draw from this a conclusion.

Yes, Nicodemus had some problems, which you pointed out as being ours too:
We do not know how we will appear, or how we shall be when born again of the Spirit, as we cannot understand the spiritual world[/u]
.



Good observation.

If we cannot understand the spiritual world, we do not know how we shall be when born again.

To enter the spiritual world, the kingdom of God and of Christ, we must be born again, said Jesus.

So, years later, what does the Apostle John have to say about that?

This is your claim:

So John understood that we will be made everlasting spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming.


According to John, believers will be born again of the Spirit at the Second Coming!


According to John himself, in 1 John:
2:29
If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of Him.


3:9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. \10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil.

4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

5:1,4,18
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth Him that begat loveth him also that is begotten/born of Him.
\\So this is where our little exercize has led us.

Right to the obvious truth John writes of, which completely exposes the untruth you write on this thread.

Being born again is our entrance into God's spiritual world as His children, with all that that means and will mean.

A passing from death to life, from darkness into His marvelous light.

One that happens to everyone who is a believer. All of them on this earth and in this mortal body.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #415

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:21 am
Being born again is our entrance into God's spiritual world as His children, with all that that means and will mean.

A passing from death to life, from darkness into His marvelous light.

One that happens to everyone who is a believer. All of them on this earth and in this mortal body.
The reward of the saved is everlasting life.

But God cannot make a mortal body which lives forever.

Thus to gain everlasting life, the saved must be born again of the Spirit.

Because that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And spiritual bodies live forever.

===========================================================

You can be born again repeatedly to a hope, a wish, a new attitude, etc.

But only being born again of the Spirit gains one everlasting spiritual bodied life.

And that happens once, and only once, at the Second Coming:

When he shall appear at the Second Coming, we shall be like him.

The believers body which is sown like a seed, is a natural body.

That body will be resurrected as a spiritual body.

Behold, I come quickly, and my reward is with me.

Etc, etc, etc.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #416

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:05 am
But God cannot make a mortal body which lives forever.
You are perhaps confusing "material" with "mortal". God can do anything including keep a flesh and blood material body alive indefinitely. Indeed that is what was held before Adam had he remained obedient.


MARK 10:27

With men it is impossible but not so with God, for all things are possible with God

GENESIS 18:14

Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?
JOB 42:2
Now I know that you are able to do all things and that nothing you have in mind to do is impossible for you.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #417

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:13 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:05 am
But God cannot make a mortal body which lives forever.
Now do you know this?
========================================

I'm guessing you meant "How" instead of "Now."

========================================

A mortal body dies by definition of mortal:

Mortal: subject to death.

Likewise, an immortal body can never die by definition of immortal.

Immortal: Incapable of dying.

And one thing God cannot do is to lie:

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; (Titus 1:2)

So if God creates a mortal body, that body cannot also be immortal. An immortal mortal body is a contradiction, or lie!

===================================================

Natural physical bodies are mortal.

Spiritual bodies are immortal.

So obviously, no man will live forever.

This is why believers must be born again of the Spirit to gain everlasting life.

Man can only gain everlasting life by being born again of the Spirit as an immortal spiritual bodied being.

But upon doing so, we are no longer men or women, but have become equal unto the immortal angels.

===================================================
JehovahsWitness wrote:You are perhaps confusing "material" with "mortal". God can do anything including keep a flesh and blood material body alive indefinitely. Indeed that is what was held before Adam had he remained obedient.
Keeping a flesh and blood body alive indefinitely does not meet the definition of immortal.
Last edited by myth-one.com on Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #418

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:54 pm

A mortal body dies by definition of mortal:

Yes. See edit above.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

Post #419

Post by onewithhim »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:25 am
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:22 am
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.
  • What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is? It is the adoption of humans as sons of God to join His spirit family in heaven.
  • Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?It is only for some believers.
  • Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?It takes place in this life.
  • Why is it so important? Because It is part of God's purpose for vindicating His holy name ( see Mat 6:9, 10) .
  • Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?Not directly, no. Jesus did not connect being born again to repentance or even directly to faith but rather to Gods will.
  • How would you explain verse 8?Unlike a physical birth which is dependent of predictable biological constraints, spiritual adoption is invisible to man and dictated only by God's will and purpose.



JEHOVAHS WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

HEAVEN , BORN AGAIN and ... THE 144, 000
Excellent explanations. It makes perfect sense that Jesus was speaking about those of his co-rulers that would be with him in spirit bodies in heaven, and, then, a much larger group would be living forever on Earth, being aided by those in heaven. How else can a person explain verses like Psalm 37: 9-11 and verse 29? "The righteous will inherit the earth...and live forever on it"?? If the righteous are all in heaven, how can those verses be understood? Spirit begotten people will go to heaven to rule with Christ. That is being born of the spirit--"born again." They will help the billions on Earth to re-invigorate this beautiful planet and build wonderful lives for all of them.

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Re: This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

Post #420

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:25 am
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:22 am
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.
  • What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is? It is the adoption of humans as sons of God to join His spirit family in heaven.
No, it is a real birth -- as Jesus stated.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:25 am
  • Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?It is only for some believers.
No, it is for every believer -- "whosoever believeth."
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:25 am
  • Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?It takes place in this life.
No, it takes place at (and after) the Second Coming.
JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:25 am
  • Why is it so important? Because It is part of God's purpose for vindicating His holy name ( see Mat 6:9, 10) .
It is God's method of creating new earthly angels to replace those who rebelled.


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