You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #521]

Do you even believe that there are spiritual bodied beings?

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

[tam]

Peace to you myth-one!

Peace to you both,

Spirit beings are immortal in the sense that they do not die of natural causes. But they can be destroyed (by fire).

God is a Spirit: . . . John 4:24

Should God stay away from fire?

God is a consuming fire. His power, His dynamic energy, is far more powerful than the spirit beings (the seraphs) that He created. Everything came from Him - including the lake of fire (which is not a mere campfire) - how could anything, therefore, harm Him?

Spirit beings do not die from any natural causes!

Correct. I never said otherwise. I am not talking about a flame from a match. But a much greater power that can devour even the spiritual.

They are all immortal.

That means they do not die from natural causes, but they can be destroyed.

Physical beings can be killed by fire.

Yes.

If spirits can also be killed by fire, as you claim, then there is no certainty that John 3:16 is true:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

A - again, we are not talking about a mere campfire. Rather a dynamic - even radiant - power.

B - The certainty that the promise made in John 3:16 is true is because God has promised it. It has nothing to do with whether or not a being can "technically" be destroyed; but instead it is true because God knows that that such ones WILL have everlasting life; He has seen it; He is certain of it. Just as He knows - is certain - there will be no more need for the world of the dead. Because there will be no more death.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[myth-one.com]

Spirit beings are immortal in the sense that they do not die of natural causes. But they can be destroyed (by fire).

Then they are not immortal!

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #520]

Do you even believe that there are spiritual bodied beings?

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Yes, of course!

Why did you ask me that?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #520]

Do you even believe that there are spiritual bodied beings?

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Yes, of course!

Why did you ask me that?

Well, you claim to have already been born again of the Spirit.

And those born of the Spirit are spiritual bodied beings.

But, you cannot deny the existence of your physical body.

==========================================

So what exactly is your body type at this time?

How do you describe it?

Are you the spiritual body living within a physical body thing?

I did not mean to offend you.

Sorry again!

[1213]

...
How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?
...
Why is it so important?
...

I have understood it meant that the teachings Jesus said can cause change in person so that he becomes righteous. And if person is righteous, he can be counted as children of God. Reason why I think so is:

But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13

It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
John 6:63

"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:10-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of God was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever is born of God doesn't commit sin, because his seed remains in him; and he can't sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are revealed, and the children of the devil. Whoever doesn't do righteousness is not of God, neither is he who doesn't love his brother.
1 John 3:7-10

I think it is important, because it means person will then do what is right and don’t do evil things.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #520]

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)

We are converted into spiritual, immortal bodies, as opposed to our present physical, mortal bodies. We are new spirits, and thus spiritual "children."

We are born of the Spirit (God), thus we are the children of God.

God is a Spirit. Thus we are spirits -- that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This blessed birth occurs at the resurrection, thus we are children of the resurrection.

That's what the scriptures state. You can believe it or not.

If only you could keep to what the scriptures state!

I believe what the scriptures state, but do not believe your explanation of some of them.

This one, Matthew 18:3 (in context) in particular.

1). You begin it by writing, "We are converted into spiritual immortal bodies".

That will happen, but it is not even remotely what Jesus says or means in this out of context verse 3.

Further, what you convey as happening, is done by God, not by us.

We will not, and cannot, do anything to "be converted, and become" "spiritual immortal bodies".

He does it all. Philippians 3:20-21.

Jesus said "Except ye be converted, and become". Personal(ye) conversion/change is our decision, not God's.

2). You wrote, "We are new spirits, and thus spiritual "children." To which you added, "This blessed birth occurs at the resurrection, thus we are children of the resurrection."

That is in no way said by Jesus in verse 3. When we include verses 2 and 4 as context, this is made quite obvious.

Look more carefully at how Jesus spoke about "children" and why he did so, in Matthew 18:

1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them,
3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself as this little child, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

You wrote about the future as "spiritual children, children of the resurrection", as if that was what Jesus intended.

He didn't. Not even in the slightest.

What he intended was what John wrote. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing other than.

It is present tense, not future tense or event. It is individual and it is personal. Something for each to choose now.

"unless you become as little children", and, "whoever humbles himself as this little child".











k

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #520]

Do you even believe that there are spiritual bodied beings?

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Yes, of course!

Why did you ask me that?

Well, you claim to have already been born again of the Spirit.

And those born of the Spirit are spiritual bodied beings.

But, you cannot deny the existence of your physical body.

==========================================

So what exactly is your body type at this time?

How do you describe it?

Are you the spiritual body living within a physical body thing?

I did not mean to offend you.

Sorry again!

Not to worry, I am not even the least offended.

Your questions all assume your view is correct, which says:

"those born of the Spirit are spiritual bodied beings."

I don't assume or think that.

So to answer is pointless, and can never satisfy you.

Sorry about that, chief!

[myth-one.com]

Your questions all assume your view is correct, which says:

"those born of the Spirit are spiritual bodied beings."

I don't assume or think that.

So to answer is pointless, and can never satisfy you.

Sorry about that, chief!

That "view" did not originate with me.

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Tell Jesus you're sorry, not me.

Let Jesus know how to correct His incorrect description of those born of the Spirit.

Those born of the Spirit are ________ ( what ) ____ !

[Checkpoint]

Your questions all assume your view is correct, which says:

"those born of the Spirit are spiritual bodied beings."

I don't assume or think that.

So to answer is pointless, and can never satisfy you.

Sorry about that, chief!

That "view" did not originate with me.

. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Tell Jesus you're sorry, not me.

Let Jesus know how to correct His incorrect description of those born of the Spirit.

]]Those born of the Spirit are _
_______ ( what ) ____ !

It's supposed to remain a secret between us, but I'll just answer a little, one more time:

Those born of the Spirit are born again/ born of God.

As confirmed by Peter and John, as existing then, without mention or any need for them to have become "spiritual bodied beings".

John was a good and reliable writer, and you seem to like what he writes.

So here is some of what he wrote, about his fellow believers.

Who and what they are, and what sets them apart from unbelievers, and why.

All from 1 John.

3:9 Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.
10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

There is more.