You MUST be born again

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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #501

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:27 pm Regarding believers, he wrote that the natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last.
Well, he said the physical is first, then the spiritual. But to say the physical is no longer when the spiritual comes -- to say this explicitly (or implicitly) indicates mutual exclusivity -- is a stretching of the text into something it is not. The spiritual joins with the physical in this life at the point the person is saved.
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:27 pm If that is true, then you have not been born again of the Spirit as you still have a natural body.
Therefore, since what I said above is true, logically and , what you say here is false.

Grace and peace to you.

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You MUST be born again

Post #502

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:27 pm
Checkpoint wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 3:01 am
Myth-one.com wrote:Thus, for man to gain everlasting life, he must be born of the Spirit.
Amen.

We can at least agree on this!

As to what, why, and when it is, is another story entirely.
Yes we can -- thanks for that.

Good post!

But Paul explained very clearly as to what, why, and when.

Regarding believers, he wrote that the natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last.

If that is true, then you have not been born again of the Spirit as you still have a natural body.
What Paul wrote is true, but in contrast, what you wrote about being born again is not true to Scripture.

We do not have, and do not need, a spiritual body to become born again of the Spirit of God.

It is essential that as many as possible are added to God's family in this age, which Paul called the day of salvation.

Each individual who answers the gospel call is then born of God as His child and is thereby an heir of salvation.

He or she thereafter walks by faith, not by sight. When Jesus ret8rns, that faith will become sight.

A great multitude, all together, heirs no longer, will then inherit salvation and everlasting life (in a spiritual body fit for that purpose).

God speed that "last day"!

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #503

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:54 pm
What Paul wrote is true, but in contrast, what you wrote about being born again is not true to Scripture.

We do not have, and do not need, a spiritual body to become born again of the Spirit of God.
That is correct, and I have never stated otherwise!

We need to be born again of the Spirit to gain an everlasting spiritual body, as we cannot enter the spiritual Kingdom of God with a natural body.

All believers become joint-heirs with Christ unto salvation.

Salvation from the second death is accomplished by becoming the opposite body type -- spiritual body versus natural body.

Why? Because spiritual bodies cannot die.

The wages of sin is death, all mankind sinned and is headed for the second death, but believers in Christ as their Savior become heirs unto salvation.

Our inheritance will be a spiritual birth into a spiritual body which never dies.

Once we have been born again of the Spirit as a spirit, we cannot then die, thus salvation!

See how that works?

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You MUST be born again

Post #504

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #503]
What Paul wrote is true, but in contrast, what you wrote about being born again is not true to Scripture.

We do not have, and do not need, a spiritual body to become born again of the Spirit of God.
That is correct, and I have never stated otherwise!

We need to be born again of the Spirit to gain an everlasting spiritual body, as we cannot enter the spiritual Kingdom of God with a natural body.

All believers become joint-heirs with Christ unto salvation.

Salvation from the second death is accomplished by becoming the opposite body type -- spiritual body versus natural body.

The wages of sin is death, all mankind sinned and is headed for the second death, but believers in Christ as their Savior become heirs unto salvation.

Our inheritance will be a spiritual birth into a spiritual body which never dies.

Once we have been born again of the Spirit as a spirit, we cannot then die, thus salvation!

See how that works?
I see how you think it works, and I see how God works all things together, for His purpose, and to His glory..

What comes first is what He has ordained must happen, to us and in us, during our life here in our natural body.

If it does not happen before we die, we do not become His children and therefore will never be heirs unto, let alone inheritors of, salvation.

What has God ordained must happen first, during this life in this body?

Become what you wrote, "believers in Christ as their Savior".

That is, as confirmed in John 1:
12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
John confirms many times, in 1John, that being born again was happening then to believers.

First things first!

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #505

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:01 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #503]
What Paul wrote is true, but in contrast, what you wrote about being born again is not true to Scripture.

We do not have, and do not need, a spiritual body to become born again of the Spirit of God.
That is correct, and I have never stated otherwise!

We need to be born again of the Spirit to gain an everlasting spiritual body, as we cannot enter the spiritual Kingdom of God with a natural body.

All believers become joint-heirs with Christ unto salvation.

Salvation from the second death is accomplished by becoming the opposite body type -- spiritual body versus natural body.

The wages of sin is death, all mankind sinned and is headed for the second death, but believers in Christ as their Savior become heirs unto salvation.

Our inheritance will be a spiritual birth into a spiritual body which never dies.

Once we have been born again of the Spirit as a spirit, we cannot then die, thus salvation!

See how that works?
I see how you think it works, and I see how God works all things together, for His purpose, and to His glory..

What comes first is what He has ordained must happen, to us and in us, during our life here in our natural body.

If it does not happen before we die, we do not become His children and therefore will never be heirs unto, let alone inheritors of, salvation.

What has God ordained must happen first, during this life in this body?

Become what you wrote, "believers in Christ as their Savior".

That is, as confirmed in John 1:
12 But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God.
John confirms many times that being born again was happening then to believers.

First things first!
If John confirms many times that being born again of the Spirit was happening at that time, then why do you quote John stating that Jesus gives the right to become children of God to believers?

The right to become children of God means that each believer becomes a joint-heir with Jesus to inherit everlasting life:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we (believers) are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

Being given the right to become the children of God is not the same as becoming the children of God!

=============================================
Checkpoint wrote:What has God ordained must happen first, during this life in this body?
What?

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You MUST be born again

Post #506

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #506]
f John confirms many times that being born again of the Spirit was happening at that time, then why do you quote John stating that Jesus gives the right to become children of God to believers?

The right to become children of God means that each believer becomes a joint-heir with Jesus to inherit everlasting life:

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we (believers) are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ ... (Romans 8:16-17)

Being given the right to become the children of God is not the same as becoming the children of God!
It doesn't have to be.

What you quoted from Romans 8 is the present position of believers.

We got there by following what God said, putting first things first.

=============================================
Checkpoint wrote:
What has God ordained must happen first, during this life in this body?
What?
The first thing is what Jesus talked about to Nicodemus.

"You(personally) must be born again"

That is how we join God's family as His newborn children, and are now thereby, heirs.

Some call it conversion, others call it being born again. Jesus called it both.

It is the birth of our spiritual life with a new spiritual nature.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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You MUST be born again

Post #507

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #506]
We need to be born again of the Spirit to gain an everlasting spiritual body, as we cannot enter the spiritual Kingdom of God with a natural body.
Yes of course, but what comes first and what comes last?

What comes first is what comes by faith. What comes last is what comes by sight.

What begins our walk by faith is our personal experience of being born again, of the Spirit, of God.

What comes last comes by the destruction of the last enemy, death.

First the natural, then the spiritual body.

First the temporal tent, then the eternal house.
2 Corinthians 5:
1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,
3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.
4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now the One who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Last edited by Checkpoint on Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #508

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #508]

Yes, the natural body comes first.

And for believers, an immortal spiritual body will come last.

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You MUST be born again

Post #509

Post by Checkpoint »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:40 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #507]

Yes, the natural body comes first.

And for believers, an immortal spiritual body will come last.
Indeed.

Our discussion/debate has been about the journey God takes us through to transitioning from one to the other.



It is as Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:5
Now the One who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Yes, He gave us the Spirit of life to begin to fashion us.

Thus He started us on our faith hope, and love journey as His children, born of God.

This is what John 1 tells us.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the authority to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God
This truth is exemplified in 1 John.

.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #510

Post by myth-one.com »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:40 pm [Replying to Checkpoint in post #507]

Yes, the natural body comes first.

And for believers, an immortal spiritual body will come last.
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:38 amIndeed.

Our discussion/debate has been about the journey God takes us through to transitioning from one to the other.
It happens in the twinkling of an eye.
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:38 amIt is as Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:5
Now the One who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Yes, He gave us the Spirit of life to begin to fashion us.
This refers to the Holy Spirit or Comforter sent to help believers.

These believers are still human.
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:38 am Thus He started us on our faith hope, and love journey as His children, born of God.
No, we have not yet been born of the Spirit (God).
Checkpoint wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:38 amThis is what John 1 tells us.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the authority to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God
John tells us that we have been given the authority to become the children of God.

We have not yet become children of God! We have been given authority to become heirs unto salvation under the New Testament Covenant. That is, our names have been written in the Book of Life as inheritors of everlasting life. We are authorized inheritors.

But there remains one obstacle to our living forever. That obstacle is body type. Natural flesh and blood bodies die. This obstacle will be overcome at the Second Coming when we receive our inheritance of everlasting life by being born again of the Spirit.

Referring to believers resurrected at the Second Coming, Luke quotes Jesus Christ as stating:

Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)

John states that Christians have been given the authority to become children of God.

Jesus states that after their resurrection believers ARE the children of God!

Paul also writes that believers are the children of God after their resurrection:

I Corinthians 15:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

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