You MUST be born again

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Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Checkpoint
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You MUST be born again

Post #511

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #510]
No, we have not yet been born of the Spirit (God).
Checkpoint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:38 pm
This is what John 1 tells us:

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the authority to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
John tells us that we have been given the authority to become the children of God.

We have not yet become children of God! We have been given authority to become heirs unto salvation under the New Testament Covenant. That is, our names have been written in the Book of Life as inheritors of everlasting life. We are authorized inheritors.
Anyone given authority activates it, or the giving is itself the activation.

This is an example of self-activation:
Jesus called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out impure spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.(Matthew 10:1)


The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."(Luke 10:17)
We have received Jesus and have believed on his name. Thus the authority to become the children of God is being activated, one by one, by new believers being born of God, who is Spirit.



Born of supernatural descent, which is activated, not by a self-decision, but by a supernatural decision made by God.
These believers are still human.
Of course!

But now sharing their humanity with the divine presence within, in a Father-child spiritual relationship.
Paul also writes that believers are the children of God after their resurrection:
Yes, which he, in Romans 8, affirms they already are before their death and resurrection.
15 For you did not receive a spirit of slavery that returns you to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
We become God's children by being born again. That is, born of God, born of the Spirit, born from above.

There is no other way, or other time, to become a child of God.

He has ordained that it must happen during this earthly life within this mortal body and being.

If we are a child of God at our death, we will continue to be so in our resurrection.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #512

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:46 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #510]
No, we have not yet been born of the Spirit (God).
Checkpoint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:38 pm
This is what John 1 tells us:

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the authority to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
John tells us that we have been given the authority to become the children of God.

We have not yet become children of God! We have been given authority to become heirs unto salvation under the New Testament Covenant. That is, our names have been written in the Book of Life as inheritors of everlasting life. We are authorized inheritors.
Anyone given authority activates it, or the giving is itself the activation.

This is an example of self-activation:
So you made yourself born again of the Spirit.

The Do-It-Yourself version!

========================================
Myth-one.com wrote:These believers are still human?
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:46 pmOf course!
Jesus was explaining what mankind must do to see the Kingdom of God.

Humans are flesh and blood and because of that they cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

You admit that you are still human after supposedly being born again of the Spirit.

But if so, you still cannot inherit the Kingdom of God -- because you are still flesh and blood!

So what have you gained?

========================================
Checkpoint wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:46 pm If we are a child of God at our death, we will continue to be so in our resurrection.
Death no longer applies to those born again of the Spirit.

So it is nonsense to speak of "at the death" of anyone born of the Spirit.

Likewise, there is no longer any reason for you to be resurrected -- as you already have your reward.

According to you, you received your reward early!


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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #513

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #512]
So you made yourself born again of the Spirit.

The Do-It-Yourself version!
Do you mind?

What did I write about that?
We have received Jesus and have believed on his name. Thus the authority to become the children of God is being activated, one by one, by new believers being born of God, who is Spirit.



Born of supernatural descent, which is activated, not by a self-decision, but by a supernatural decision made by God.

I suggest you apologise.

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You MUST be born again

Post #514

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #512]

Myth-one.com wrote:
These believers are still human?
Checkpoint wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:46 pm
Of course!
Jesus was explaining what mankind must do to see the Kingdom of God.

Humans are flesh and blood and because of that they cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

You admit that you are still human after supposedly being born again of the Spirit.

But if so, you still cannot inherit the Kingdom of God -- because you are still flesh and blood!

So what have you gained?
What indeed!

Much in every way.
1 Peter 1:

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you,
5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In all this you greatly rejoice.

. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,
9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2:2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation,
3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.

Philippians 3:
20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #515

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 4:09 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #512]
So you made yourself born again of the Spirit.

The Do-It-Yourself version!
Do you mind?

What did I write about that?
We have received Jesus and have believed on his name. Thus the authority to become the children of God is being activated, one by one, by new believers being born of God, who is Spirit.

Born of supernatural descent, which is activated, not by a self-decision, but by a supernatural decision made by God.

I suggest you apologise.
You also wrote "Anyone given authority activates it . . .

I assumed "anyone" included you. So that you authorized you own being born again of the Spirit.

Since Jesus states that event will happen at the Second Coming, any other born agains of the Spirit would be unauthorized.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

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You MUST be born again

Post #516

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #512]

Checkpoint wrote:
If we are a child of God at our death, we will continue to be so in our resurrection.
Death no longer applies to those born again of the Spirit.

So it is nonsense to speak of "at the death" of anyone born of the Spirit.

Likewise, there is no longer any reason for you to be resurrected -- as you already have your reward.

According to you, you received your reward early!
Such is the reasoning that easily misunderstands another poster.

It is inevitable, when that person does the same thing with some Scripture, by adding to it and/or taking away from it.

The result is an "according to you" claim that is nonsense.

"Born of the Spirit refers to a fundamental inward change, not an outward body change.

The inward comes first, the outward comes last.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #517

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:27 pm "Born of the Spirit refers to a fundamental inward change, not an outward body change.

The inward comes first, the outward comes last.
That's according to Checkpoint.

According to the scriptures there are natural bodies and spiritual bodies:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Each of the two body types defined in the Bible, natural and spiritual, require a separate and distinct type of birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

So being born of the Spirit is an actual birth that results in an immortal spiritual bodied being equal unto the angels being produced!!

Now you know.

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You MUST be born again

Post #518

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #515]
Since Jesus states that event will happen at the Second Coming, any other born agains of the Spirit would be unauthorized.
Another example of where your own reasoning and understanding, which leaves much else to be desired.

Jesus states no such thing. He doesn't state when anyone will be born again. Only that "you(Nicodemus) must be born again".

All those who "have been born again/born of God", did so by being authorized. None have been, or will be, unouthorized.

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Re: You MUST be born again

Post #519

Post by myth-one.com »

Checkpoint wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:44 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #515]
Since Jesus states that event will happen at the Second Coming, any other born agains of the Spirit would be unauthorized.
Another example of where your own reasoning and understanding, which leaves much else to be desired.

Jesus states no such thing. He doesn't state when anyone will be born again. Only that "you(Nicodemus) must be born again".
Actually, He does. Referring to believers resurrected at the Second Coming, Luke quotes Jesus Christ as stating:

Luke 20:

34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (those authorized), and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:

36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)


===============================================

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)

We are converted into spiritual, immortal bodies, as opposed to our present physical, mortal bodies. We are new spirits, and thus spiritual "children."

We are born of the Spirit (God), thus we are the children of God.

God is a Spirit. Thus we are spirits -- that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

This blessed birth occurs at the resurrection, thus we are children of the resurrection.

That's what the scriptures state. You can believe it or not.
Checkpoint wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 11:44 pmAll those who "have been born again/born of God", did so by being authorized. None have been, or will be, unouthorized.
The number of those who have already been born again of the Spirit is zero.

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You MUST be born again

Post #520

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #520]
Checkpoint wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:44 pm
[Replying to myth-one.com in post #514]
Since Jesus states that event will happen at the Second Coming, any other born agains of the Spirit would be unauthorized.
Another example of where your own reasoning and understanding, which leaves much else to be desired.

Jesus states no such thing. He doesn't state when anyone will be born again. Only that "you(Nicodemus) must be born again".
Actually, He does. Referring to believers resurrected at the Second Coming, Luke quotes Jesus Christ as stating:

and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:36)
They will be children of the resurrection on the last day, because they had already become and lived as, from their first day onward, the reborn children of God.

The number of those who have already been born again of the Spirit is zero.
Zero according to you, because of the way you counted in or out.

You number according to an outward body change.

God numbers according to an inward lifestyle change.


The New Testament says a multitude, including you and I.

Hi brother! We belong in the family of God.

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