Does Lucifer have Free Will?

[Purple Knight]

I apologise if this has been asked before (and it seems to me the obvious answer is yes) but I still want to clarify this: Does Lucifer have free will?

Further, does Lucifer have the knowledge of good and evil? Again, I apologise if this is a silly question.

And I am not out to nitpick this one; I genuinely want to know the answer. I may have a follow-up question that seems like a nitpick and an attempt to find a contradiction, but actually it would be an attempt to resolve it.

[earl]

The obvious answer is actually no.Lucifer by comparison to God does not have limitless power and authority and other unlimited abilities no other personality has. Humans have a limited free will in their range of function.Therefore we or Lucifer cannot do everything we desire to do.
But on the choice of choosing a spiritual life vs a non spiritual life both we and Lucifer do .
Most people clump both Lucifer,Satan and the devil all in one group as one entity.I however am replying to your post answering about Lucifer only and not others whom have participated and are recognized in the willful choice to rebel.
Biblical records state Lucifer rebelled .However the intent of Lucifer on this action was not exposed other than Lucifer placed himself as full authority in our part of the universe eliminating God as his authority.What is evident in Biblical referencing is that Lucifer's thinking and actions migrated to Earth's people.This is found in Jude where The act of denying God and his son.The act of denial is free to every one and in this interpretation denial by definition is that God does not exist and Jesus is not the son of God.(If God don't exist then neither his son is a son of him.)
Lucifer became the first atheist.He as we do maintain the free will to decide ,choose who is reality and who is not.Prior to Lucifer's rebellion it seems apparent he maintained eternal life by volitional service to God.A theoretical mechanistic Lucifer has not the mind to understand and other than his programming so a choiceless Lucifer did not exist because he would have acted against his programming compared to his previous volitional service.

[Purple Knight]

Lucifer became the first atheist.

This is exactly how I would characterise myself as an atheist. It's not about whether God exists so much as whether I should worship it, if it does exist.

I find the entity in the Bible very unlikely to exist, but if we live in a multiverse where everything exists somewhere, that doesn't change my fundamental belief system.

I try to be a good person. If that's not enough, if I must choose to worship an entity I don't see as helping me be a good person, then that's not enough and I burn. And that's fine.

In a multiverse where everything is possible, there are infinite all-powerful gods of every moral persuasion. Some are kind, some are cruel, and everything in-between. You might, for example, find yourself in a sci-fi universe faced with a garden-variety evil entity pretending to be god. The question in this case that to me strikes the heart of the issue is this: If that entity is so powerful that it can send me to Hell or Heaven, does that make it God even if it is cruel? Do I morally have to worship it?

[Miles]

I apologise if this has been asked before (and it seems to me the obvious answer is yes) but I still want to clarify this: Does Lucifer have free will?

No. Other than as an illusion there's no such thing as free will.

Further, does Lucifer have the knowledge of good and evil?

A curious question. What is "have the knowledge of good and evil" as opposed to "have knowledge of good and evil"?

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Lucifer became the first atheist.He as we do maintain the free will to decide ,choose who is reality and who is not.Prior to Lucifer's rebellion it seems apparent he maintained eternal life by volitional service to God.

Ah, you do realize that the most common atheist position is a lack of belief in the existence of god, don't you? So to say that Lucifer "maintained eternal life by volitional service to God" yet lacks a belief in god, doesn't make sense.


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[earl]

There are many people who believe,God conscious ,that do not believe hell is a everlasting "cruel" torture for sinners or non believer's punishment.
To them God is a moral God ,no cruelty or torture for non believer's punishment.
Worship is volitional.One must be loved to love.Love is an act of worship returning the love first given.

[earl]

Miles,
Lucifer did maintain a position of eternal life prior to his rebellion.He had heavenly status.
Lucifer embraced sin by a rebellion.He knew God by faith and later rejected his faith in God.
This act of rebellion disqualified his remaining eternal life.

[Purple Knight]

No. Other than as an illusion there's no such thing as free will.

I agree. I say more about it in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=93&t=37902

I don't think anybody has free will, but racists certainly don't think their hated race has free will, or members thereof could and often would select against their nature.

If Hitler believes a black person did a certain thing because of his nature... then Hitler believes that black person lacks free will. If that person's nature made him do that, then he never could have chosen otherwise. All you have to do is browse the internet to find racists; they're very common. Yet determinism is uncommon, and most racists are not receptive to the idea that they already believe in determinism.

If you speak with them about it, they become what I call "nudgees" who believe that your nature can impact your choice without outright determining it. Perhaps that there is some strength of will that can overcome nature. I, however, see it as binary. If the nature made the choice, no free will. If the nature didn't make the choice, then perhaps free will.

[earl]

Purple Knight,
Are you saying that genetics control a persons free will?
Are you saying genetics control a person's spirituality?
Are you saying poor genetics relates to poor spirituality?
Are you saying good genetics relates to good spirituality?
Are you saying poor genetics relates to being more mechanistic and less free to exert will?
Not sure where you are going with free will

[Purple Knight]

Are you saying that genetics control a persons free will?

No, but I'm saying a racist (if logically consistent) is prevented from believing in free will.

A common racist sentiment is, black people commit more crime because they are predisposed to crime. If you believe that (I don't, but if you do) you can't believe those black criminals made a choice to be criminals. They were just born that way.

I don't believe in free will anyway and I'll discuss anything with anyone so I often try to convince a racist that he already believes in determinism. That's when they come out with the strength of will argument. They will say, yes, so-and-so was predisposed to do that thing, but with enough strength of will he could have avoided it. I find this argument to be a lot like telling a fingerless man "try harder" and he can play Moonlight Sonata.

I asked if Lucifer has free will because I have an interest in the Christian canon; whether Lucifer the Light chose to rebel (and could have chosen instead to obey), or whether he was created as a meat robot that was destined to rebel. (I don't know if angels have angel meat; I just find "meat robot" to be an very descriptive phraseology when talking about deterministic actions from individuals without agency. An example of an actual meat robot would be some lower animal like a snail or perhaps even a frog; it's just going to do whatever its instinct compels it to.)

[Miles]

Miles,
Lucifer did maintain a position of eternal life prior to his rebellion.He had heavenly status.
Lucifer embraced sin by a rebellion.He knew God by faith and later rejected his faith in God.
This act of rebellion disqualified his remaining eternal life.

Curious as to what chapter and verse says that Lucifer knew God only (your implication) by faith. Particulaely when Job 1:7 says

"The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you been?” Satan answered the Lord, “I have been roaming around the earth, going from place to place.”"

And the chapter and verse saying that later Lucifer (Satan) rejected his faith in God.

Lu·ci·fer
/ˈlo͞osəfər/
noun
singular proper noun: Lucifer; noun: lucifer; plural noun: lucifers
1. another name for Satan.
Source: Oxford English Dictionary