Calvinism Settled

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Calvinism Settled

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Post by Benson »

For the purpose of this discussion, the commonly accepted historic representative of modern Reformed Theology will be John Calvin.

Jesus in Matt. 7:16 clearly specifies His Followers are to be identified by their personal fruits, later put to text by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. As well, John specified in 1 John 4:20 that for a Believer to not love a Brother in Christ was to clearly show that Believer was a liar, and loved not God.

John Calvin was a material witness upon the heresy trial against Stephen Servitus by the Godless Roman Catholic organization. Rather than forgive and show love to Servitus, Calvin contributed to and approved his murder. Calvin acted in concert with the Roman Catholic's presumptive governence over the souls of men. Calvin acted just as did Paul who was accessory to the Stoning of Deacon Stephen by the first century Jews.

John Calvin with his so called doctrines of predestined Salvation thereby demonstrated those doctrines produce ghastly error without Godly fruit. No supposed explanation or excuse for Calvin's willful participation in the horrific and needless killing of Stephen Servitus will provide validation of his Reformism. Calvin was by the example of Christ giving His mercy unto the heretical Samaritans obligated to do the same for Servitus. Jesus did not condemn unbelievers to immediate execution, but rather left ultimate judgement to The Father.

This judgemental posture and unloving conduct characterizes all writings and pursuits of both Puritan and modern Reformists. For example, American Puritan immigrants slaughtered Native Americans, calling them Godless savages deserving such. Today, the endless and strident writings of Reformists continue to deny the character, salvation through Christ, and mercy of God to those created in His image. All this takes place because, as did the Pharisees, they worship the Text of Scripture, "Thinking in them they have life." They call such worship of the Text "exegesis."

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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #2

Post by Miles »

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Okay I guess. What is it you wanted to debate?


.

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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #3

Post by Benson »

I would never debate what one guesses.
Perhaps a debate would be upon the personality types attracted to Calvinism, and whether or not those souls remain recalcitrant unto themselves apart from conformity to Christ.
Would you want a Calvinist raising your grand children?
Last edited by Benson on Wed Jan 27, 2021 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Calvinism Settled

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Post by PinSeeker »

Benson wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:53 pm Today, the endless and strident writings of Reformists continue to deny the character, salvation through Christ, and mercy of God to those created in His image.
Quite the opposite is true. Is this what you want to debate? Reformed Christians and Calvinists are... well, really, primarily concerned with proclaiming God's sovereignty and mercy and salvation through Christ, and our having been created in His image -- just how amazing His love and mercy and grace are, really. Is this what you want to debate?

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Calvinism Settled

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Post by Benson »

There is no debate possible upon the infinite Love of God unto all those who will to come to Him through Christ. Proclamations can indeed be made unto no effect upon imaginary constraints of God's Love.

In His Love, He provides His Word by means of John, the Apostle specially loved and favored by Christ, writing about dunamai/might, "to be able or possible," having nothing to do with appointment or election. To the Greeks Paul graciously and obediently spoke ara/haply, "perhaps," again having no part of predetermination. God indeed ordains His Word shall speak for itself, apart from the arrogance of exegesis and endless volumes of human speculation.

Would you have approved of the killing of Stephen Servitus? Yes? No? No answer?

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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #6

Post by PinSeeker »

Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:42 pm There is no debate possible upon the infinite Love of God unto all those who will to come to Him through Christ. Proclamations can indeed be made unto no effect upon imaginary constraints of God's Love.

In His Love, He provides His Word by means of John, the Apostle specially loved and favored by Christ, writing about dunamai/might, "to be able or possible," having nothing to do with appointment or election. To the Greeks Paul graciously and obediently spoke ara/haply, "perhaps," again having no part of predetermination. God indeed ordains His Word shall speak for itself, apart from the arrogance of exegesis and endless volumes of human speculation.

Would you have approved of the killing of Stephen Servitus? Yes? No? No answer?
I have no idea what your "beef" is or where you're trying to go with this. It seems to be the idea of appointment, of God's election. If that's the case and your assertion is that Paul preached otherwise, I would suggest you read Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 again. It shouldn't take you too long. Here, I'll help:
  • "...God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls... Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy... So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9)
  • "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved." (Ephesians 1)
So Paul knew all about God's purpose of election, and laid it out very clearly.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #7

Post by Benson »

Let me help you with Romans and God's Election.

No place in Romans speaks of individual election, but every mention of election is done upon a segment of the redeemed, as The Church. The Church is the Elect.

Remember, Jeremiah's Potter narrative, restated by Paul apart from its original context, speaks not of individuals, but of the Nation of Israel. Paul's use of the Potter Analogy was applied to broken Judaism being remade into The Church.

Blessings upon your best efforts. All Reformists carry the burden of hardened hearts, not being able to grasp God's Love and incredible Mercy upon His image bearers, His created humans. I will be praying for you.

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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #8

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Benson in post #1]
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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #9

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Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 pm Let me help you with Romans and God's Election.
No need, thank you. It's you who needs understanding here. I surely don't mean to project myself as superior to you or anybody else in any way, but what Paul says is crystal clear.
Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 pm No place in Romans speaks of individual election, but every mention of election is done upon a segment of the redeemed, as The Church. The Church is the Elect.
It's true that Church... Christ's Church... is made up of the Elect, for sure. But it is not correct to say that "no place in Romans speaks of individual election. Paul's whole emphasis (Romans and elsewhere) is to preach the Gospel to individuals. And in Romans 9 in particular, he answers -- before they can be raised by anyone -- any objection by any individual regarding God's purpose of election and His sovereignty in drawing individuals to Himself (calling them, via His Holy Spirit) with statements llike the following:
  • "(God) has mercy on whomever He wills, and he hardens whomever He wills..." -- He does not say "whichever nation I will," but rather "whom ever."
  • "You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' ” -- notice the personal pronoun used ("you") and the references to individuals ("O man," "what is molded"), as opposed to nations.
Surely what Paul is saying here applies to all men, but what he is saying applies to all individuals individually. It's unmistakable. Unless, of course, one just denies it willfully, which is certainly possible, but that doesn't somehow change the force of what Paul is saying.
Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 pm Remember, Jeremiah's Potter narrative, restated by Paul apart from its original context, speaks not of individuals, but of the Nation of Israel. Paul's use of the Potter Analogy was applied to broken Judaism being remade into The Church.
Yes, I know Jeremiah 18 very well. But what you are not understanding is that God's Israel was always -- and always will be -- made up of individual believers... those who are called by the Lord. Ezekiel's "narrative" is applicable here, too, the connection being the house of Israel (Jeremiah 18:6 and Ezekiel 36:22). In Ezekiel 36, we read:
  • "Thus says the Lord GOD: 'It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for the sake of my holy name... I will vindicate the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations... I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land. I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God." (Ezekiel 36:22-32)
What's happening in both Jeremiah and Ezekiel is that, yes, all of Israel is being spoken to as one, but what is being said applies to all individuals within Israel also. When each of us is called by God -- via His Spirit -- we are born again (both Paul and Peter are very clear about this in Ephesians 1-2 and 1 Peter 1, respectively, and Jesus Himself in speaking to Nicodemus in John 3) and our heart of stone is removed, and we receive a heart of flesh. God puts His Spirit within us and causes us to walk in His statutes. Thus, He becomes our God and we become part of His Israel and are counted among His people; we become true Jews, according to what Paul says at the end of Romans 2:
  • "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God." (Romans 2:28-29)
So finally, after Paul sets out God's purpose of election, he sums it up in Romans 11 by saying, "...a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved" (11:25-26).
Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 pm Blessings upon your best efforts.
And yours, for sure.
Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 pm All Reformists carry the burden of hardened hearts, not being able to grasp God's Love and incredible Mercy upon His image bearers, His created humans.
You're welcome to your opinion, but as I said, the opposite is true. The Reformers like Martin Luther and John Calvin, sinners that they were, understood just how magnificent -- how amazing -- God's love and mercy and glory really are, and it was their lives' work to convey that to all.
Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:12 pm I will be praying for you.
Thank you. Much appreciated. And I for you. Grace and peace to you.

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Re: Calvinism Settled

Post #10

Post by Benson »

PinSeeker wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:15 pm
Benson wrote: Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:42 pm There is no debate possible upon the infinite Love of God unto all those who will to come to Him through Christ. Proclamations can indeed be made unto no effect upon imaginary constraints of God's Love.

In His Love, He provides His Word by means of John, the Apostle specially loved and favored by Christ, writing about dunamai/might, "to be able or possible," having nothing to do with appointment or election. To the Greeks Paul graciously and obediently spoke ara/haply, "perhaps," again having no part of predetermination. God indeed ordains His Word shall speak for itself, apart from the arrogance of exegesis and endless volumes of human speculation.

Would you have approved of the killing of Stephen Servitus? Yes? No? No answer?
I have no idea what your "beef" is or where you're trying to go with this. It seems to be the idea of appointment, of God's election. If that's the case and your assertion is that Paul preached otherwise, I would suggest you read Romans 9 and Ephesians 1 again. It shouldn't take you too long. Here, I'll help:
  • "...God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls... Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy... So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, 'Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, 'Why have you made me like this?' Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?" (Romans 9)
  • "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption to Himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, with which He has blessed us in the Beloved." (Ephesians 1)
So Paul knew all about God's purpose of election, and laid it out very clearly.

Grace and peace to you.
Simply because Paul described his ideology does not mean he laid out The Gospel of Christ. Per Peter, Paul wrote "wisdom ". Paul's writings do contain some of God's Word, and it was preserved by God for us. King Solomon's wisdom in Ecclesiastes is with us by God preserving it, but Solomon's declarations about the futility and vanity of human life is not God's Word through Jesus for Mankind.

Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 7:12, "Speak I, not the Lord." This proves not all of Paul's writing is the Word of God.

Yes, I do have Grace and Peace from Jesus, but not as you presume to patronizingly confer. Lol.

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