Calvinism Settled

[Benson]

For the purpose of this discussion, the commonly accepted historic representative of modern Reformed Theology will be John Calvin.

Jesus in Matt. 7:16 clearly specifies His Followers are to be identified by their personal fruits, later put to text by Paul in 1 Corinthians 13. As well, John specified in 1 John 4:20 that for a Believer to not love a Brother in Christ was to clearly show that Believer was a liar, and loved not God.

John Calvin was a material witness upon the heresy trial against Stephen Servitus by the Godless Roman Catholic organization. Rather than forgive and show love to Servitus, Calvin contributed to and approved his murder. Calvin acted in concert with the Roman Catholic's presumptive governence over the souls of men. Calvin acted just as did Paul who was accessory to the Stoning of Deacon Stephen by the first century Jews.

John Calvin with his so called doctrines of predestined Salvation thereby demonstrated those doctrines produce ghastly error without Godly fruit. No supposed explanation or excuse for Calvin's willful participation in the horrific and needless killing of Stephen Servitus will provide validation of his Reformism. Calvin was by the example of Christ giving His mercy unto the heretical Samaritans obligated to do the same for Servitus. Jesus did not condemn unbelievers to immediate execution, but rather left ultimate judgement to The Father.

This judgemental posture and unloving conduct characterizes all writings and pursuits of both Puritan and modern Reformists. For example, American Puritan immigrants slaughtered Native Americans, calling them Godless savages deserving such. Today, the endless and strident writings of Reformists continue to deny the character, salvation through Christ, and mercy of God to those created in His image. All this takes place because, as did the Pharisees, they worship the Text of Scripture, "Thinking in them they have life." They call such worship of the Text "exegesis."

[Benson]

Yes. And what is the material or spiritual outcome of you and Paul saying "Grace and Peace?" Is the effect anything more than sentiment?

Grace and peace to you, benson. Or, as the LORD, through Moses, told Aaron to say in blessing the Israelites: "The LORD bless you and keep you; the LORD make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the LORD lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace." If that means nothing to you coming from me, so be it.

If you were a Professional Church Talker standing at a pulpit, it would be simple to understsnd saying "Grace and Peace" is a rhetoric device to garner acceptance and favor upon a sermon.

Some might think that, sure.

Even as the source and embodiment of all Grace, Jesus never spoke the word "Grace." As well, because of His unknowable Love and Mercy, He never spoke of limited atonement. Is this good news?

Concerning grace, no, He never actually said "grace." But He sure exhibited it, didn't He? And embodied it.

Regarding limited atonement, Jesus certainly did say, "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out" (John 6:37). The implicit statement in that is that the Father does not give to Jesus all; many He does not give Jesus. So Christ's atonement, while most certainly sufficient for all, is "limited" in the sense that it was only intended and effectual for God's Elect. You see that clearly, don't you? Surely you do. God's salvation is 100% effective and accomplishes all it was meant to accomplish; His purposes cannot be thwarted. Jesus sums it up with His last cry on the cross, "It is finished!"

Grace and peace to you, benson.

No Scripture states Moses is to be emulated by Church people.

Yes, relying upon human thought being "implicit" is how Satan works to corrupt God's written Word. God has not directed anyone to amend His Word.

In God's anticipation of self willed implications about His Word, He had Apostle John repeatedly use the simple word "dunamai" #1410, meaning "to be able or possible, could, might, may" to describe the fact of Salvation through Christ from it being potential for all people. See John 3:16 ff.
"Dunamai" has nothing to do with the election or predestination about which Calvin and other joyless Bible talkers produced volumes to convince people to parrot.

A simple question here: Should those who believe God follow what Scripture shows, or what Reformed Theologians try to deduce with lots of explanation?

[John Bauer]

Jesus ... never spoke of limited atonement.

In fact, he did: "I lay down my life for the sheep. ... you are not of my sheep ..." (John 10:15, 26, NKJV).

[Benson]

Jesus spoke of redeeming others beyond His Israeli sheep. Try to think about the Samaritans.

[John Bauer]

[Replying to Benson in post #24]

Yes, he said that he has other sheep that are not of this fold. He said he laid down his life for the sheep—all of them.

And yet he said, "You are not of my sheep."

Limited atonement.

[Benson]

The atonement for all the the World still does exist. The limitation was decided by those who reject Him.

"Whosoever believeth."

[PinSeeker]

The atonement for all the the World still does exist. The limitation was decided by those who reject Him.

"Whosoever believeth."

So glad you brought up the "whosoever believeth" reference. This is what Paul says in Romans 10, that "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." He's quoting from Joel 2:32 there. And if we read that passage in its full context, well:

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls."

What we can easily see from that is, only the ones whom the LORD calls will call on the name of the LORD and thus -- with 100% certainty -- be saved. Conversely, we know not everyone will be saved -- except for universalists, who are just mistaken and thus wrong. So yes, whosoever... but only those whom the LORD calls will then call on the name of the LORD. These are God's Elect. And this is limited atonement.

In a certain sense, yes, the atonement for all the world certainly does exist. That sense is that the atonement of Jesus on the cross was certainly sufficient to atone for everyone. But the fact is that the atonement was only effectual for God's elect, so it's "limited" in that sense.

Grace and peace to all.

[Benson]

I appreciate how you have revealed your error. To replace "who calls" with "will call" is to clearly demonstrate how "We" all can see you are trying to change the Text of God's Word in Scripture.

Academia once again has succeeded in its pursuit to corrupt Spiritual Light by directing it's adherents to falsely exegete.

Answer not to me, but to God.

[John Bauer]

[Replying to Benson in post #26]

You say the atonement was for "all the the world."

Jesus said he laid down his life for the sheep—and some people are not of his sheep.

I'll stick with Jesus on this.

[PinSeeker]

I appreciate how you have revealed your error. To replace "who calls" with "will call" is to clearly demonstrate how "We" all can see you are trying to change the Text of God's Word in Scripture.

Yes, God is the One who calls, and all whom He will call will be saved. You have just made a difference without distinction. Nobody's changing anything, Benson.

Academia once again has succeeded in its pursuit to corrupt Spiritual Light by directing it's adherents to falsely exegete.

<eyeroll>

Answer not to me, but to God.

Yes, I don't intend to answer to you, Benson. Grace and peace to you, though.

[Benson]

I appreciate how you have revealed your error. To replace "who calls" with "will call" is to clearly demonstrate how "We" all can see you are trying to change the Text of God's Word in Scripture.

Yes, God is the One who calls, and all whom He will call will be saved. You have just made a difference without distinction. Nobody's changing anything, Benson.

Academia once again has succeeded in its pursuit to corrupt Spiritual Light by directing it's adherents to falsely exegete.

<eyeroll>

Answer not to me, but to God.

Yes, I don't intend to answer to you, Benson. Grace and peace to you, though.

You are proud of your own words. Remember, the Text does not contain "will call."

You will be accountable to God for your persistent lie. And you have not the character to repent of this lie. He is waiting for you. Judgement will occur.