Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Exploring the details of Christianity

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William
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Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #1

Post by William »

Generally it is understood that those who call themselves "Christian" *share a number of agreed beliefs, even if they do not participate in each others denominations or agree to specific beliefs which go towards the creation of said denomination's [schism's] which branch [sprout] out from the main trunk of middle eastern mythologies - the branch called "Christendom".

The *general consensus appears to me to be;

1: Christians are those who say they follow after Jesus-of-the-Bible.
2: The Bible is considered by Christians to be "The Word of God"
3: Christendom, as a whole, is "The Church" Jesus set up.
4: There are no Christians who are not members of Christendom because Christendom is the vessel through which Jesus delivered The Bible [his word] to the world.
5: The Creator of The Creation is called "God"
6: "God" is the god of the Jews.
7: "The Father" [as Jesus-of-the-Bible referred to The Creator] is a term Jesus used when referring to The Old Testament [The G_D of The Jews] idea of a god.

Perhaps the list is too long already? Or perhaps there may be more that all Christians appear to agree on?

Do you agree with any of those points on my list?

Why do YOU call yourself a "Christian"?

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #21

Post by gadfly »

[Replying to William in post #1]

Fundamental to earliest Christianity (as witnessed by the letters of Paul, the gospels and Acts) was belief in the resurrection and lordship of Jesus Christ. These were missing from the list.

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #22

Post by William »

gadfly wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 1:10 am [Replying to William in post #1]

Fundamental to earliest Christianity (as witnessed by the letters of Paul, the gospels and Acts) was belief in the resurrection and lordship of Jesus Christ. These were missing from the list.
Are you saying that such belief is necessary in order that individuals can call themselves a "Christian"?

Do you have anything to say about those things which are on this list?

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #23

Post by RightReason »

William wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:34 pm
Point being, no one needs to 'talk about it' because it is not a requirement of ones salvation to believe any particular entity [visible or invisible] is "The Church" or is to be recognized as "The Church"
I disagree. There is no salvation outside the Church. Does that mean if someone is in the wrong church, he cannot be saved? No. But it does mean there is one, true, faith and Jesus did establish One Church and it will be by way of His Church that we are all saved.
And the Bible is merely something which holds very little of what vastness Jesus taught. [re The Fathers Kingdom] so in itself is not overly helpful to the seeker of said Kingdom. So what entity is responsible for "getting it out there" is besides the point and as such, is really NOT an "elephant in the room that nobody want's to discuss".
Again, I couldn’t disagree more. The entity IS very important because it was the means Jesus intended. And it is also odd to me to consider the Bible as unhelpful. It too is the means God intended to make many public revelations to us. The Bible is God’s love letters to His people and as St. Jerome says, “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ”.

But back to the entity or which church being important, it is vital because only Christ’s Church has His promise that He will remain with her forever.

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
It is obviously not important in the grand scheme of things. Sure, it is obviously important to you and how you view your "reason for being a Christian" but one size does not fit all
I will respectfully have to disagree with you again. There is in fact one size. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.” Scripture refers the Church as ‘the pillar and foundation of truth’. So, yes, I would say it is fairly important in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #24

Post by William »

RightReason wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:54 pm
William wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:34 pm
Point being, no one needs to 'talk about it' because it is not a requirement of ones salvation to believe any particular entity [visible or invisible] is "The Church" or is to be recognized as "The Church"
I disagree. There is no salvation outside the Church. Does that mean if someone is in the wrong church, he cannot be saved? No. But it does mean there is one, true, faith and Jesus did establish One Church and it will be by way of His Church that we are all saved.


Your personal proselyting is noted, but is shown already to be "over and above what is required" to be called "Christian."
As far as the Bible tells it, salvation is in Jesus and his words. Giving that over as a "Church responsibility" runs the risk of Jesus telling me that he does not know me nor I him, and therefore pointing me to the "on your way" exit...
Point being, a Christian [apparently] is someone who listens to Jesus and also finds out what they can about the hidden knowledge regarding The Father's Kingdom. Is this knowledge to be found in "The Church"? Apparently not, so look elsewhere...
And the Bible is merely something which holds very little of what vastness Jesus taught. [re The Fathers Kingdom] so in itself is not overly helpful to the seeker of said Kingdom. So what entity is responsible for "getting it out there" is besides the point and as such, is really NOT an "elephant in the room that nobody want's to discuss".
Again, I couldn’t disagree more. The entity IS very important because it was the means Jesus intended. And it is also odd to me to consider the Bible as unhelpful. It too is the means God intended to make many public revelations to us. The Bible is God’s love letters to His people and as St. Jerome says, “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ”.
While certainly a very romantic argument, the way the Bible presents Jesus, he isn't all that much of a romance kind of guy.
Sure, I can accept a bit of Disney in the mix, happily ever after and all that, but really? "The Church" was [apparently] NOT given All the words the Churches Bible say's that Jesus spoke in his teachings. Those words are absent from the Bible, so anything Jesus said in secret is not something The Church was privy to because The Church got its stories from the public arena. In that sense the Church is a publicity agent for the public face of Jesus. Not the actual device through which salvation [eternity with The Father's Kingdom] is achieved. More like a branch of the main Tree, rather that The Tree itself..."The Church" needs to realize its place in the scheme of things and back off from claiming such as these claims you present to me/the reader.
But back to the entity or which church being important, it is vital because only Christ’s Church has His promise that He will remain with her forever.


How special for The Church to share the same spot as ordinary people shall share with Jesus. Reminds me of how the disciples used to argue about their place in heaven before Jesus put them right on that one. Seems like in going out and creating The Church, they still hadn't understood what Jesus was going on about, when I read arguments such as you are presenting here...but part of me doesn't really think once they became Apostles, that they didn't clearly understand Jesus' "Greatest Shall Be Lest" story...so in turn this makes me wonder if the visible church you speak of, didn't actually just make all that up to get the spotlight...
“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Big strong manly boast, but has it ever appeared to be the truth of the matter? More importantly, was Jesus telling everyone that only Peter could do these things? I know Pagans practice these things all the time, daily - with results and those "gates of hell" are not prevailing in that sector either...

...and certainly my own prayer practices have produced similar results...so that leaves me naturally wondering the legitimacy of your claims about "The Church"

What Jesus was saying re Peter, was that there is a kingdom called 'Heaven" [nestled somewhere in his Fathers Kingdom] which had suffered at the assaults' of the Kingdom of Hell and that Jesus had made it possible for the kingdom of heaven to be gated from the kingdom of hell - literally separated, but still within sight of each other...a tidy place where the battle could go on in a more fair manner.
"The Rock" was not "Peter" really - but The Lord took the opportunity in Peter's name to make the connection..."This Rock" is Jesus referencing The Earth.

The building of The Church on this rock [The Earth] was part of the recipe for the building of the wall between heaven and hell so these could be properly separated in relation to The Fathers Kingdom...which is why there is also a wall surrounding both heaven and hell -

Indeed, this is sort of reversal of the pagan adage "as above - so below" - only the the way around - "As on Earth, So in Heaven" and the question is, whether Jesus really needs a publicity agent to get the message across, or has the visible church you claim is that agent, been successful in that regard?

Obviously the game on is to gather as many from the hell team to add to the heaven team...if hell shall not prevail, it should be seen in its counterpart here on earth...which is prevailing on this planet? Heaven or Hell?

But that is just that particular game. In The Fathers Kingdom, there are many games to play which don't involve any of those romantic type dramas.


It is obviously not important in the grand scheme of things. Sure, it is obviously important to you and how you view your "reason for being a Christian" but one size does not fit all
I will respectfully have to disagree with you again. There is in fact one size. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.” Scripture refers the Church as ‘the pillar and foundation of truth’. So, yes, I would say it is fairly important in the grand scheme of things.

So on the one hand we have "I am the way and the truth and the life.” and on the other we have "the Church is ‘the pillar and foundation of truth" and both saying "Follow Me!"

Interesting.

You believe to follow the one is to follow the other and if one is not following the one, one cannot be following the other.

Try saying that putting "Jesus" first and "The Church" second.

"To follow Jesus is to follow The Church"

Then try saying that putting "The Church" first and "Jesus" second.

"To follow The Church is to follow Jesus"

Do they look "the same size fits all" to you still? Of course they do because "the Church" as far as you are concerned, Is the Catholic Church.

But is it? Is it really?

If it were, then it should be able to supply the vast teachings of Jesus to do with The Fathers Kingdom that we may learn from these teachings.
Until they do, if I were a Christian I would see no particular point in believing the visible thing claiming to be "The Church that Jesus set up" or listening to it, has anything to do with my actual salvation and being with Jesus forever.

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #25

Post by tam »

May you all have peace,
William wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:50 pm Generally it is understood that those who call themselves "Christian" *share a number of agreed beliefs, even if they do not participate in each others denominations or agree to specific beliefs which go towards the creation of said denomination's [schism's] which branch [sprout] out from the main trunk of middle eastern mythologies - the branch called "Christendom".

The *general consensus appears to me to be;

1: Christians are those who say they follow after Jesus-of-the-Bible.
2: The Bible is considered by Christians to be "The Word of God"
3: Christendom, as a whole, is "The Church" Jesus set up.
4: There are no Christians who are not members of Christendom because Christendom is the vessel through which Jesus delivered The Bible [his word] to the world.
5: The Creator of The Creation is called "God"
6: "God" is the god of the Jews.
7: "The Father" [as Jesus-of-the-Bible referred to The Creator] is a term Jesus used when referring to The Old Testament [The G_D of The Jews] idea of a god.

Perhaps the list is too long already? Or perhaps there may be more that all Christians appear to agree on?

Do you agree with any of those points on my list?

Why do YOU call yourself a "Christian"?

I am Christian, because my Lord (Christ Jaheshua) called and chose me, anointing me with holy spirit. A Christian is an anointed one (anointed with holy spirit.) Christ does the choosing and anointing (such as when He breathed holy spirit upon the apostles, and again upon the people at Pentecost, and also upon Cornelius and his family). All these people (including me) were disciples first, then Christians (anointed ones) after receiving holy spirit.

My Lord is the One who called and made me Christian.


**

None of the things on the list in the OP make a person a Christian (and I am not sure how much of a consensus you are going to get, since "Christianity" the religion is divided in itself), but...
1: Christians are those who say they follow after Jesus-of-the-Bible.
See explanation above for what makes someone Christian.

2: The Bible is considered by Christians to be "The Word of God"
No, the bible is not the Word of God. Christ is the Word of God.
3: Christendom, as a whole, is "The Church" Jesus set up.
I am not sure what you mean when you use the word "Christendom".

But the Church is the Body of Christ, made of PEOPLE who belong to Him, who are in Him (His Body). The Church is not a religion (organized or institutionalized) that got 'set up'. The only religion that God gave and set up was the system of worship with the law and the priesthood given to Israel, through Moses. But once Christ came, the people were to listen to Him, and to worship in spirit and in truth.

4: There are no Christians who are not members of Christendom because Christendom is the vessel through which Jesus delivered The Bible [his word] to the world.
The bible is not 'his word'. Christ is Himself the Word (of God). He calls His sheep by name, they listen to His voice and they follow Him. He does not need a book to speak through. He can speak Himself.

5: The Creator of The Creation is called "God"
It is correct that the Creator is called God, but that is not His name. Other beings are also called gods.
6: "God" is the god of the Jews.
The God and Father of Christ is the God of the Jews, but also the God of all Israel (12 tribes, not just the two that make up the Jews), and of people in all nations, tribes, tongues.

7: "The Father" [as Jesus-of-the-Bible referred to The Creator] is a term Jesus used when referring to The Old Testament [The G_D of The Jews] idea of a god.
Christ referred to His God as the Father (the begetter), because that is who God is . Christ did not refer to anyone's idea of a god, as the Father.



Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #26

Post by William »

[Replying to tam in post #26]
OP wrote:4: There are no Christians who are not members of Christendom because Christendom is the vessel through which Jesus delivered The Bible [his word] to the world.
The bible is not 'his word'. Christ is Himself the Word (of God). He calls His sheep by name, they listen to His voice and they follow Him. He does not need a book to speak through. He can speak Himself.
See the thread "The Bible Tells Me So" for more interesting information regarding this.

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #27

Post by RightReason »

tam wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:54 pm No, the bible is not the Word of God. Christ is the Word of God.
Christianity regards the Bible, a collection of canonical books in two parts (the Old Testament and the New Testament), as authoritative. It is believed by Christians to have been written by human authors under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and therefore for many it is held to be the inerrant Word of God.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_theology


It is interesting how far off some can get when they reduce Christ’s Church to an idea. The understanding that the Bible is the Word of God is one of the basic principles of Christianity that now it seems even some Christians can’t admit. This is precisely what happens when we do not recognize One, Holy, Apostolic, and Authoritative Church as Christ intended. We go off on our own and end up even ready to throw out the Bible, God’s revelation to us. The “Me & Jesus” camp reduces the faith so much, I’m afraid they find themselves left with nothing but the word according to them.

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Re: Why Do You Call Yourself A "Christian"?

Post #28

Post by William »

[Replying to RightReason in post #28]

Please do not use this thread to argue the validity of the Bible as being "The Word of God"

See the thread "The Bible Tells Me So" for more interesting information regarding this. Fell free to argue your points therein....

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