Today's Excellent Church.

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Benson
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Today's Excellent Church.

Post #1

Post by Benson »

Acts 2 gives the narrative of how the Body of Christ His Church was brought into being by the coming of The Holy Spirit, according to Joel ch. 2 as cited by Apostle Peter.

Today, there are no features within modern Christendom which are a continuation of either Acts ch. 2, Joel ch. 2, The Jerusalem Messianic Church, or the Pauline Gentile Church.

This post remains very short because there is no other information in Scripture to authenticate the state of today's so called "Church." If one thinks the Church does exist today according to the foundation of the Apostles with Christ as the Cornerstone, tell us where on Earth it exists in the hearts of Men before God. No place in Paul's teaching says the Church is some intangibly perceived group of minds set upon faith in Christ.

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #11

Post by Benson »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:24 am The church of Acts was not a building or a place it refered to spirit anointed believers and would be organised into a global phenonema. Jesus indicated such a body would indeed exist during the last days and would be recognizable. Scripture indicates the first century Christians had

1. a name that identified individuals as belonging to the specific group

2. a leadership at a particular location that decided church policy and official church teachings

3. regular meetings for instruction and fellowship

4. Local members that knew each other by name

5. Disaster relief programs to help their membership during time of crisis

6. Centrally appointed men to ensure conformity to church teaching

7. Excluded those that refused to keep to church teaching and standards

8. A tradition that all members (both men and women) preach to strangers about their beliefs

9. Had missionaries that spread their message in far off territories

10. Would be miligned as being a "sect" and ill thought of by the majority of non members

Jesus said his people would be identifiable by the love and unity they display for each other and by their faithfully following his example. He commanded his followers to be public preachers and teachers of the kingdom and to stay loyal to the word of God.

I believe only Jehovah's Witnesses meet the above criteria and can as a body claim to be God's people today.



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Do you believe Jesus is the only Divine and Begotten Son of God, and that He created this World?

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #12

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Benson wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 am
Do you believe Jesus is the only Divine and Begotten Son of God...?
Yes I do.

Benson wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 am
Do you believe Jesus ... created this World?

If by world you mean this our planet earth, then no... for the bible says

In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth"

- Genesis 1:1


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INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #13

Post by Benson »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:10 am
Benson wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 am
Do you believe Jesus is the only Divine and Begotten Son of God...?
Yes I do.

Benson wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 am
Do you believe Jesus ... created this World?

If by world you mean this our planet earth, then no... for the bible says

In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth"

- Genesis 1:1


JW
Have you decided Jesus is not God?

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Benson wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:18 am
Have you decided Jesus is not God?
Was there a part of the above exchange you are having trouble understanding?
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:10 am
Benson wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:02 am
Do you believe Jesus is the only Divine and Begotten Son of God...?
Yes I do.



JW

Is there a valid reason not to take Jesus at his word?
" I said, I am God's SON [...]" (John 10: 36)
- - Jesus Christ
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #15

Post by Benson »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:45 am
Benson wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:36 am
I have never seen such a group which was not just a wacko cult run by some self appointed looney.
Thank you for your input I wanted at least 10 points and your comment promted my memory to add #10.

See edit above



JEHOVAHS WITNESS



ACTS 28:22 - Berean Study Bible

But we consider your views worth hearing, because we know that people everywhere are speaking against this sect.”


To read more please go to other posts related to POSTS RELATED to ...

RELIGION, CHRISTIANITY and ...JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES
Do you believe Jesus is God?

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #16

Post by RightReason »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:24 am 1. a name that identified individuals as belonging to the specific group

2. a leadership at a particular location that decided church policy and official church teachings

3. regular meetings for instruction and fellowship

4. Local members that knew each other by name

5. Disaster relief programs to help their membership during time of crisis

6. Centrally appointed men to ensure conformity to church teaching

7. Excluded those that refused to keep to church teaching and standards

8. A tradition that all members (both men and women) preach to strangers about their beliefs

9. Had missionaries that spread their message in far off territories

10. Would be miligned as being a "sect" and ill thought of by the majority of non members

Jesus said his people would be identifiable by the love and unity they display for each other and by their faithfully following his example. He commanded his followers to be public preachers and teachers of the kingdom and to stay loyal to the word of God.

I believe only Jehovah's Witnesses meet the above criteria and can as a body claim to be God's people today.
Your list describes the Catholic Church. In fact, the Catholic Church has all you listed as well as an unbroken chain of apostolic succession, leading back to Jesus Christ, Himself. She also decided the Canon of the Bible your founder used to create his New World Translation in the late 1800’s. The Catholic Church also has a long litany of Saints. And she does not have failed prophecies, indicating a false prophet.

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #17

Post by 2timothy316 »

RightReason wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:08 pm She also decided the Canon of the Bible your founder used to create his New World Translation in the late 1800’s.
This is false. The books were already known as scripture before they put it together. It was already decided for them. The Jews already had the Hebrew scriptures, the Gospels and the letters to the congregations were already called scripture before their writers died. The only thing that the Catholics did was bind it all together. They deserve no medal for this.

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #18

Post by RightReason »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:24 pm
RightReason wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:08 pm She also decided the Canon of the Bible your founder used to create his New World Translation in the late 1800’s.
This is false. The books were already known as scripture before they put it together. It was already decided for them. The Jews already had the Hebrew scriptures, the Gospels and the letters to the congregations were already called scripture before their writers died. The only thing that the Catholics did was bind it all together. They deserve no medal for this.
It is true. There were many, many gospel writings and letters that did not make the cut. The Church established by Jesus Christ had the authority, guided by the Holy Spirit, to determine which writings made it and which didn’t. And again the JW’s were a little late to the scene, not existing until almost the 1900’s. History alone disqualifies them.

The once Protestant, eventually Catholic convert, John Henry Newman said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #19

Post by JehovahsWitness »

RightReason wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 12:08 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:24 am 1. a name that identified individuals as belonging to the specific group

2. a leadership at a particular location that decided church policy and official church teachings

3. regular meetings for instruction and fellowship

4. Local members that knew each other by name

5. Disaster relief programs to help their membership during time of crisis

6. Centrally appointed men to ensure conformity to church teaching

7. Excluded those that refused to keep to church teaching and standards

8. A tradition that all members (both men and women) preach to strangers about their beliefs

9. Had missionaries that spread their message in far off territories

10. Would be miligned as being a "sect" and ill thought of by the majority of non members

Jesus said his people would be identifiable by the love and unity they display for each other and by their faithfully following his example. He commanded his followers to be public preachers and teachers of the kingdom and to stay loyal to the word of God.

I believe only Jehovah's Witnesses meet the above criteria and can as a body claim to be God's people today.
Your list describes the Catholic Church.


With all, due respect all the members of the Catholic church are not active preachers of the Kingdom. Indeed if someone knocked on your door or approached a stranger on the street and said they wanted to speak to them about God's Kingdom, the first reaction would probably not be "Oh you must be a Chtholic!" Catholics have a clergy class that are experienced and trained for public preaching, but Jesus' disciples demonstrated they understood the commission for all his followers be active preacheds and teachers of the good news (Mat 28: 19, 20).


History has shown the membership of the catholic church have failed to show brotherly love for their fellow members. Jesus said LOVE (not apostolstic succession) would be the identifying mark of true Christians. Yet during two world wars and countless conflicts Catholic has killed Catholic on the battle fields in direct defiance of Jesus command to love each other (John 13:35).



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ps: I think I should have combined #2 and #6 and had a new point

- Stay loyal to the word of God as expressed in the teachings of Christ. Adopting pagan teaching such as the trinity, the immorality of the soul, eternal torture of the dead in hellfire ect is evidence that a religion has departed from the fundamental teaching of Christ and does not meet Gods standards.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Today's Excellent Church.

Post #20

Post by RightReason »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 3:08 pm With all, due respect all the members of the Catholic church are not active preachers of the Kingdom.
Only those sent by God, were intended to be ordained priests. The Apostles were sent by Jesus, had hands laid upon them, and were told to preach. This apostolate was continued in the early days of the Church. The people knew who had been chosen to speak for the Church. Scripture tells us how the people took their matters to the Church and acknowledged the Church’s authority.


Acts 2:42
And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

Titus 1:3
And at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by the command of God our Savior;

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,

Matthew 11:5
The blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them.

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

1 Timothy 2:12 ESV / 2 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
Indeed if someone knocked on your door or approached a stranger on the street and said they wanted to speak to them about God's Kingdom, the first reaction would probably not be "Oh you must be a Chtholic!"

Indeed. Because as Catholics, we know we are called to witness to our faith every day, which can be done in the way we conduct our lives, being good neighbors and friends, speaking about God to others in the checkout line at the grocery store, at the neighborhood block party, on the side lines at the soccer game, etc. No need to ring doorbells. There are hundreds of opportunities to spread the Good News! And more productively, I might add.

Catholics have a clergy class that are experienced and trained for public preaching, but Jesus' disciples demonstrated they understood the commission for all his followers be active preacheds and teachers of the good news (Mat 28: 19, 20).
Not quite. See all my Scripture passages above. Also, I already explained how we all can bring Christ to our fellow man. Purchasing and distributing colorful pamphlets not necessary.

History has shown the membership of the catholic church have failed to show brotherly love for their fellow members.
History has shown quite the opposite.

Jesus said LOVE (not apostolstic succession) would be the identifying mark of grue Christians.
He actually spoke about both. It isn’t an either/or.

Yet during two world wars and countless conflicts Catholic has killed Catholic on the battle fields in direct defiance of Jesus command to love each other (John 13:35).
All human beings, including JW’s have disobeyed God’s command in loving each other at some point. We all fall short. God never spoke of a total condemnation of war. Scripture even shows His disciples carried swords.


Also, not all are called to be ordained ministers or missionaries. A culture of witness is sustained within the Church through marriage and the family and our ordinary lives. We are all sons and daughters of Christ and can bring our faith and teach others about God in the workforce and in our own families. This is yet one more thing the JW’s don’t fully understand.

Beautiful words about Christ’s Church and what we as members are all called to:


It is therefore primarily by her conduct and by her life that the Church will evangelize the world, in other words, by her living witness of fidelity to the Lord Jesus - the witness of poverty and detachment, of freedom in the face of the powers of this world, in short, the witness of sanctity.32


The New Evangelization does not seek to invite people to experience only one moment of conversion but rather to experience the gradual and lifelong process of conversion: to draw all people into a deeper relationship with God, to participate in the sacramental life of the Church, to develop a mature conscience, to sustain one’s faith through ongoing catechesis, and to integrate one’s faith into all aspects of one’s life. 34 The process of conversion and evangelization that accomplishes the objectives above must include the witness of the Church through her members in the everyday living out of the Gospel.

https://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teach ... of-witness

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