"In the beginning God created ...."

[William]

"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?

[William]

"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

So, what is the nature of the reality that's being simulated?


.

The thread is not investigating the nature of the reality that's being simulated. The thread is investigating the Christian claim that our current reality is a Creation, but is not a Simulation.

Miles’s question seems significant. Before we can address the claim that we live in a creation but not a simulation, we first need to know what the difference is between reality and a simulation.

The OP is not claiming that we exist within a creation, but not a simulation.
"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

The OP is asking "what is the difference" because it appears that there is no difference and therefore why do Christians react as if there is?


"Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?"

[William]

[Replying to William in post #1]

I have no problem with people using the terms as synonyms, but I would hazard a guess that many Christians don't view those as synonymous terms. Using some of the definitions of 'simulation' from Oxford Languages we have:

1. imitation of a situation or process
2. the action of pretending; deception
3. the production of a computer model of something, especially for the purpose of study

I'm not sure many Christians would see God's creation as an imitation of something else, an act of pretending, deception, or a model of something for the purpose of study.

One of the definitions of 'Creation" is "something that has been brought into existence or created."

In relation to the idea that a creator created this universe [as per Christian mythology] definition 3 in your above, closely fits with this idea.

That many Christians would not see this as "a model of something for the purpose of study" does not mean that it isn't, or does not fit in with anything Jesus is said to have revealed.

Point being, if Christian mythology points agreeably to the idea that The Creator "brought the universe into existence" and also has within the mythology the idea that the Universe has a purpose which would naturally include the study of the results of doing so, in relation to those experiencing said creation, then it becomes clear that the creation is also a simulation...because it has purpose and because it produces results which can be studied and learned from/by.

[bjs1]

"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

So, what is the nature of the reality that's being simulated?


.

The thread is not investigating the nature of the reality that's being simulated. The thread is investigating the Christian claim that our current reality is a Creation, but is not a Simulation.

Miles’s question seems significant. Before we can address the claim that we live in a creation but not a simulation, we first need to know what the difference is between reality and a simulation.

The OP is not claiming that we exist within a creation, but not a simulation.
"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

The OP is asking "what is the difference" because it appears that there is no difference and therefore why do Christians react as if there is?


"Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?"

Yes, I understand the question.

In order to answer that question we first need to know what the difference is between a simulation and the reality that it is simulating.

[William]

"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

So, what is the nature of the reality that's being simulated?


.

The thread is not investigating the nature of the reality that's being simulated. The thread is investigating the Christian claim that our current reality is a Creation, but is not a Simulation.

Miles’s question seems significant. Before we can address the claim that we live in a creation but not a simulation, we first need to know what the difference is between reality and a simulation.

The OP is not claiming that we exist within a creation, but not a simulation.
"Anyone who thinks we exist within a creation is also saying that we exist within a Reality Simulation."

The OP is asking "what is the difference" because it appears that there is no difference and therefore why do Christians react as if there is?


"Often Christians argue that we do not exist within a Simulated Reality while maintaining that we exist within a Creation.

What is the difference between existing within a Reality Simulation and existing within a Creation?"

Yes, I understand the question.

In order to answer that question we first need to know what the difference is between a simulation and the reality that it is simulating.

No we don't.

All we have to understand is that such a reality exists which is alternative to our own. Christians think of this alternate reality as being "The Heavenly Realms."

[I leave it to those who think such, to define their own 'Heavenly Realms' - and whether there is any difference between the two realities. (physical Universe and Heaven]

Also to remind one and all, Just because there is a 'heaven' which can be experienced as 'real' does not in itself prove that it too, is not a simulation of yet another reality...3, 2, 1...

[Tcg]

All we have to understand is that such a reality exists which is alternative to our own. Christians think of this alternate reality as being "The Heavenly Realms."

This seems like a different claim than from your OP. I thought your position is that we live in a simulated reality now?

If that is the case, I can't help but wonder what possible difference it could make. If we live in a simulated reality which we can't possible differentiate from an actual physical reality, what difference could it possibly make.

As far as the "Heavenly Realms" claim, I don't see this as a claim of a simulated reality, but rather a non-material one.

In any case, I can't see that it would make any difference either at all at least as long as no one pulls the plug. Even that would be no different than physical death. We'd simply cease to exist.


Tcg

[William]

All we have to understand is that such a reality exists which is alternative to our own. Christians think of this alternate reality as being "The Heavenly Realms."

This seems like a different claim than from your OP. I thought your position is that we live in a simulated reality now?

The questions put forth by Christians arguing here is "What is it a simulation of" "What is that which has created the physical universe" in which case I point to their belief in the alternative reality "Heaven" in answer to that.

If that is the case, I can't help but wonder what possible difference it could make. If we live in a simulated reality which we can't possible differentiate from an actual physical reality, what difference could it possibly make.

I have not argued that there are not differences. Just as with human created simulations, such things as environment [trees hills clouds mountains et al] become the backdrop but other things are put into those simulations which are not in this one.

As far as the "Heavenly Realms" claim, I don't see this as a claim of a simulated reality, but rather a non-material one.

Depends on who's beliefs about the nature of heaven you want to believe in. It appears for the most part that there is material in which to engage with in these alternate universes.

In any case, I can't see that it would make any difference either at all at least as long as no one pulls the plug. Even that would be no different than physical death. We'd simply cease to exist.

The simulation would cease to exist, but the experiencee would not, just like when the player turns the game off and goes off to eat, pooh sleep etc...

[Tcg]

The simulation would cease to exist, but the experiencee would not, just like when the player turns the game off and goes off to eat, pooh sleep etc...

If we are part of the simulation, we too would cease to exist. If we are simply observers of the simulation, the fact that we are watching a simulation becomes even less significant.

If we are part of the simulation, it makes no practical difference.

If we are simply observers, it makes no practical difference.

No matter how you slice it, it makes no practical difference. It is a thought experiment which is totally irrelevant to life no matter how one views it.


Tcg

[William]

The simulation would cease to exist, but the experiencee would not, just like when the player turns the game off and goes off to eat, pooh sleep etc...

If we are part of the simulation, we too would cease to exist. If we are simply observers of the simulation, the fact that we are watching a simulation becomes even less significant.

If we are part of the simulation, it makes no practical difference.

If we are simply observers, it makes no practical difference.

No matter how you slice it, it makes no practical difference. It is a thought experiment which is totally irrelevant to life no matter how one views it.


Tcg

We are not simulated. Our forms are..

[The Tanager]

One of the definitions of 'Creation" is "something that has been brought into existence or created."

In relation to the idea that a creator created this universe [as per Christian mythology] definition 3 in your above, closely fits with this idea.

A model of something for the purposes of study would be one type or instance of those things that could be (or have been) brought into existence," not a synonym for creation.

That many Christians would not see this as "a model of something for the purpose of study" does not mean that it isn't, or does not fit in with anything Jesus is said to have revealed.

Correct.

Point being, if Christian mythology points agreeably to the idea that The Creator "brought the universe into existence" and also has within the mythology the idea that the Universe has a purpose which would naturally include the study of the results of doing so, in relation to those experiencing said creation, then it becomes clear that the creation is also a simulation...because it has purpose and because it produces results which can be studied and learned from/by.

Isn't there a difference between creating something for the purpose of studying and creating something for other purposes that could end up being studied?

[William]

One of the definitions of 'Creation" is "something that has been brought into existence or created."

In relation to the idea that a creator created this universe [as per Christian mythology] definition 3 in your above, closely fits with this idea.

A model of something for the purposes of study would be one type or instance of those things that could be (or have been) brought into existence," not a synonym for creation.

Indeed. It is when applied this way. What word would you think is a synonym for creation as it is used to describe "God Created"?

That many Christians would not see this as "a model of something for the purpose of study" does not mean that it isn't, or does not fit in with anything Jesus is said to have revealed.

Correct.

Point being, if Christian mythology points agreeably to the idea that The Creator "brought the universe into existence" and also has within the mythology the idea that the Universe has a purpose which would naturally include the study of the results of doing so, in relation to those experiencing said creation, then it becomes clear that the creation is also a simulation...because it has purpose and because it produces results which can be studied and learned from/by.

Isn't there a difference between creating something for the purpose of studying and creating something for other purposes that could end up being studied?

Is there?

While you think about an example re this universe, I will simply accept it that the universe was created for a purpose.

{Bear in mind too - that "in relation to those experiencing said creation," does not only apply to those within said simulation. I read somewhere that others were present to witness the creation of said creation...