Like Sheep Among Wolves;

[William]

It is an interesting expression given we usually see the phrase spoken as "Like Wolves Among Sheep." signifying how wolves come in to steal sheep away from the shepherd.



Usually the competition [for the sheep] is between the Shepherd and the Wolves. Both are going to eat the sheep but the Shepard farms his sheep whereas the Wolves hunt the sheep.

The Shepherd has sheep gathered together rather than 'sending them out among the wolves' so what does the saying mean?

Why would a shepherd send sheep out into dangerous situations? How do the sheep get away with not being eaten? What is the result of having sheep among the wolves?

[William]

Yet Jesus counselled them to be as wise as Serpents. They thus had to figure out ways in which to survive in order to inject the good news into the human drama [among the wolves].
Does your opinion therefore align with the good shepherd's instruction?

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #7]

Yes. I like to think all my opinions align with the good shepherd's instruction.

So you too "figure out ways in which to survive in order to inject the good news into the human drama [among the wolves]."?

I don't loaded questions. I have no objection to Jesus words your interpretation of what he meant is your own and I claim no ownership of them.

You are asked [by me] to give testimony and you refuse to do so under the reasoning that being asked is a "loaded question"?

Certainly my question is directed at focusing upon that which is your [unspoken] testimony, but I am granted the freedom to ask because the claim is from you. I am simply asking for your personal examples. [testimony]

Of course you too are free to refuse to give testimony but cannot therefore complain if your claims are rejected as fantasy, baloney, made up etc...et al.

Your silence is your acknowledgement of that and an act of surrender.

I accept your silence in that light, and will not bother to ask you again.

[William]

Part of the point of Jesus’ words was the subversion of expectations. People wanted to be sent out as wolves among sheep. Jesus sent them out as sheep among wolves.

He calls us to innocence, compassion and mercy that is fundamentally risky in the world. He was pointing out that being his disciple puts us in danger of being abused, and maintaining our discipleship means that we consider the risk to be worthwhile.

This seems a reasonable explanation. Thank You.

Do you think also that Jesus required his disciples to understand how the wolves think? And if so, how to use that as an advantage...

[JehovahsWitness]

I don't [answer] loaded questions. I have no objection to Jesus words your interpretation of what he meant is your own and I claim no ownership of them.

You are asked [by me] to give testimony ...

If I want to give a personal testimony I go to church. I'm not here to give testimonies, I'm here to debate the points raised in the question of debate. . I generally do not answer questions of a personal nature on this forum. You asked some very interesting questions on the meaning of one of Jesus illustrations and then raised a point in relation to his directive to be cautious (wise) as serpents. If there was something I posted you would like to challenge or ask me about, feel free to do so

Otherwise may I wish you and yours a most wonderful evening.






JW

[William]

I don't [answer] loaded questions. I have no objection to Jesus words your interpretation of what he meant is your own and I claim no ownership of them.

You are asked [by me] to give testimony ...

If I want to give a personal testimony I go to church. I'm not here to give testimonies, I'm here to debate the points raised in the question of debate. . I generally do not answer questions of a personal nature on this forum. You asked some very interesting questions on the meaning of one of Jesus illustrations and then raised a point in relation to his directive to be cautious (wise) as serpents. If there was something I posted you would like to challenge or ask me about, feel free to do so

Otherwise may I wish you and yours a most wonderful evening.

Yet here you are consistently trying to bring your 'church' into a debate setting...

Your "church" group is simply a bitter great granddaughter of The Church and casts shadows over the great grandmother even thinking her a whore.
Why would I want to waste my time partaking in her activities by going along to hear such testimony from such a bitter critter?
I am satisfied the JW org is no better than that which she condemns...

'Good Day' to you too

[Overcomer]

Jesus was sending the disciples out into a world that he knew would be hostile to them and their message. He knew that they would be attacked and vilified and abused by the wolves out there -- wolves who purposely wanted to do them harm. He wanted to make sure that they didn't return that mistreatment (wanting them to turn the other cheek rather than respond with the anger, violence, etc.). That's what makes them sheep rather than wolves. Wolves are inherently violent and predatory. Sheep are inherently gentle and peaceful.

Jesus elaborates on this by using a simile between two unlike things to explain to the disciples how they are to conduct their ministry -- and he's picked out two positive aspects of each -- wisdom of a snake and innocence of a dove. I think that each characteristic is tempered by the other. If one were only wise, one would could fall into the trap of returning any injustice or anger from their attackers in a like fashion. If one were only innocent, one would quickly fall to the attacker and the game would be over. With their wisdom, they were to understand those who came after them, but with their innocence, they would remain godly in their response.

And I've always loved Larson's cartoons as well.

[William]

Jesus was sending the disciples out into a world that he knew would be hostile to them and their message. He knew that they would be attacked and vilified and abused by the wolves out there -- wolves who purposely wanted to do them harm. He wanted to make sure that they didn't return that mistreatment (wanting them to turn the other cheek rather than respond with the anger, violence, etc.). That's what makes them sheep rather than wolves. Wolves are inherently violent and predatory. Sheep are inherently gentle and peaceful.

Jesus elaborates on this by using a simile between two unlike things to explain to the disciples how they are to conduct their ministry -- and he's picked out two positive aspects of each -- wisdom of a snake and innocence of a dove. I think that each characteristic is tempered by the other. If one were only wise, one would could fall into the trap of returning any injustice or anger from their attackers in a like fashion. If one were only innocent, one would quickly fall to the attacker and the game would be over. With their wisdom, they were to understand those who came after them, but with their innocence, they would remain godly in their response.

And I've always loved Larson's cartoons as well.

Thank You Overcomer.
An extremely well presented interpretation. I tend to agree with you - only is 'snake' really the simile Jesus used? Some have it as written Serpent and the two are distinctive in their difference.

If Jesus was actually referring to the Serpent [and why not] he would have understood that people knew what he was referring to...not a snake....the Serpent.

So the sheep has to learn 'how to be' how to think like and how to temper the one with the other. The Dove Tempering The Serpent.

Also in terms of the two as symbolic - one of the hope [re the Noah mythology] and of holy spirit the other of clever cunning - so one uses clever cunning in a holy and hopeful manner...

[JehovahsWitness]

... only is 'snake' really the simile Jesus used? Some have it as written Serpent and the two are distinctive in their difference.

The greek word Jesus ophis used can be translated as snake or serpent the two being used interchangably in scripture.



It seems reasonable to conclude Jesus wasn't encouraging his disciples to be like Satan the Devil (see John 8:44: Mat 16:23) but rather to display the naturally positive characteristics of snakes.




JW

[William]

Jesus didn't speak Greek - and one would think knowing how ones enemy {Satan in relation to Christians} thinks would be an advantage...as long as the dove balances...no problem.

[JehovahsWitness]

....one would think knowing how ones enemy {Satan in relation to Christians} thinks would be an advantage...

There is a différence between "knowing one's enemy" and displaying the negative qualities of those ones.



Jesus is never recorded as encouraging his disciples to be enemies of God, to lie or to oppose those that wish to serve God, all things he spoke of Satan as doing ( see John 8:44: Mat 16:23) . While Jesus educated his followers about Satan's harmful methods he (Jesus) is never recorded as instructing them to adopt them. Thus it seems reasonable to conclude Jesus was NOT encouraging his disciples imitate Satan the devil at Matthew 10:16b.







RELATED POSTS

Could Adam have prevented the Serpent from being in the garden?
viewtopic.php?p=1029136#p1029136

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

FREE WILL, SATAN THE DEVIL and ...THE ORIGINAL SIN

[William]

There is a différence between "knowing one's enemy" and displaying the negative qualities of those ones.

One would think knowing how ones enemy {Satan in relation to Christians} thinks, would be an advantage...as long as the dove balances...no problem.

Jesus is never recorded as encouraging his disciples to be enemies of God, to lie or to oppose those that wish to serve God, all things he spoke of Satan as doing . While Jesus educated his followers about Satan's harmful methods he (Jesus) is never recorded as instructing them to adopt them. Thus it seems reasonable to conclude Jesus was NOT encouraging his disciples imitate Satan the devil.

One would think knowing how ones enemy {Satan in relation to Christians} thinks, would be an advantage...as long as the dove balances...no problem.