Sola Scriptura?

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Sola Scriptura?

Post #1

Post by tam »

Peace to you all,

On another thread, the topic of errors in scripture came up, and a member posted the following:
Sola Scriptura -- Scripture alone -- concerns the relation between Scripture and tradition, and affirms that Scripture is to be understood as the sole source of divine revelation, the only inspired, infallible, final, and authoritative norm of faith and practice... Scripture is “God-breathed” (2 Tim. 3:16); what Scripture says, God says

Do you see any flaws in the above description, and if so, what flaw (or flaws, if more than one) do you see? I see at least one (stands out like a flashing neon light to me), but I will wait to respond.


Peace again to you!

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #41

Post by tam »

Peace again to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:10 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:01 pm

Surely you do not think that when Christ said "Your Word is Truth" that He was referring to the bible?
I have asked many this question, few are brave enough to answer. If the Bible isn't your source of God's truth than what do you use?
I have answered this question from your before, dear timothy. But it is not a matter of 'using', it is a matter of listening and obeying (from love for and faith in Christ and His Father).

Christ is the answer to your question of course. Christ Jaheshua is the Truth, God's Truth. I listen to Him, to Christ, to the Living Word of God, who is truly alive, and who truly speaks, and who calls His sheep by name, and whose sheep listen to His voice and follow Him. He is my Teacher, my Master, my Lord.


Peace again to you, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #42

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:18 pm Peace again to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:10 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:01 pm

Surely you do not think that when Christ said "Your Word is Truth" that He was referring to the bible?
I have asked many this question, few are brave enough to answer. If the Bible isn't your source of God's truth than what do you use?
I have answered this question from your before, dear timothy. But it is not a matter of 'using', it is a matter of listening and obeying (from love for and faith in Christ and His Father).

Christ is the answer to your question of course. Christ Jaheshua is the Truth, God's Truth. I listen to Him, to Christ, to the Living Word of God, who is truly alive, and who truly speaks, and who calls His sheep by name, and whose sheep listen to His voice and follow Him. He is my Teacher, my Master, my Lord.


Peace again to you, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Yeah, that is not enough of an answer. What the source of the voice? Phone call? Disembodied? Voice in your head? More detail...which I'm sure we will not get as these answers are always either vague or avoided. How exactly is Jesus communicating with you?
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
William
Savant
Posts: 14003
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:11 pm
Location: Te Waipounamu
Has thanked: 906 times
Been thanked: 1629 times
Contact:

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #43

Post by William »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:45 pm
William wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:01 pm The Bible is not "Gods Word"

That is simply an idolatrous belief
So say you...that is your opinion.


It is indeed. Also to note, my opinion regarding this, is true. The bible itself does not say the bible is 'Gods Word'. Actually the bible say's that Jesus said that Jesus was "Gods Word"...so replacing Jesus with the bible in that way, and using the bible in that way, amounts to adherence to the bible rather than to Jesus...unless you want to argue that Jesus IS the Bible...
On this forum the Bible is said to be legitimate authority.
Yes it is, but unless you are also arguing that "legitimate authority" cannot be idolized in relation to belief and practice of belief...I don't see the relevance of your comment...
Therefore, why attack it?
I am not attacking it.
Folks here are presenting their arguments supposedly in line with what the Bible says.
Yes - 'supposedly'...

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #44

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:21 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:18 pm Peace again to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:10 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:01 pm

Surely you do not think that when Christ said "Your Word is Truth" that He was referring to the bible?
I have asked many this question, few are brave enough to answer. If the Bible isn't your source of God's truth than what do you use?
I have answered this question from your before, dear timothy. But it is not a matter of 'using', it is a matter of listening and obeying (from love for and faith in Christ and His Father).

Christ is the answer to your question of course. Christ Jaheshua is the Truth, God's Truth. I listen to Him, to Christ, to the Living Word of God, who is truly alive, and who truly speaks, and who calls His sheep by name, and whose sheep listen to His voice and follow Him. He is my Teacher, my Master, my Lord.


Peace again to you, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy
Yeah, that is not enough of an answer. What the source of the voice? More detail...which I'm sure we will not get as these answers are always either vague or avoided.
Not what- again- but whom. Christ is the source of the voice. It is His voice. He said that His sheep would listen to His voice, did He not? Do you not believe him? Are there not examples in what is written to show that He did indeed speak to His disciples after His death, resurrection and ascension? They listened to His voice, His actual words, speaking to them, directing them, teaching them.



This is from an old post, but here are some examples of how He speaks from part of that post:
He speaks in words. He speaks in visions. He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.
I will add that He also teaches by asking questions (just as He did with His apostles and disciples a couple thousand years ago). That is a powerful method of teaching.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #45

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:37 pm
He speaks in words. He speaks in visions. He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.
I will add that He also teaches by asking questions (just as He did with His apostles and disciples a couple thousand years ago). That is a powerful method of teaching.
Then why aren't all of you claim this same thing teaching the same thing? Why are there hundreds of different teachings? Why do some of you who say Jesus speaks to you in the ways you mentioned are told kill saying Jesus told them to do it? https://www.wltx.com/article/news/woman ... -381435091

There are numerous people who think as you do, why is what Jesus teaching is teaching you superior to what he supposedly teaching others? Are you all hearing, dreaming and feeling things...sure...whether it's from Jesus is yet to be proven as I'd like to see some prophesying.

Also, you still have not answer my biggest question, what did Jesus teach that was not in the Bible while he was on Earth?

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #46

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:50 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:37 pm
He speaks in words. He speaks in visions. He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.
I will add that He also teaches by asking questions (just as He did with His apostles and disciples a couple thousand years ago). That is a powerful method of teaching.
Then why aren't all of you claim this same thing teaching the same thing? Why are there hundreds of different teachings? Why do some of you who say Jesus speaks to you in the ways you mentioned kill each other saying Jesus told them to do it? There are numerous people who think as you do, why is what Jesus teaching is teaching you superior to what he supposedly teaching others?
I answered this question in post 26.

But let me ask you a question:

How would you answer those questions regarding religion? Should I dismiss all religion - including your own - because religion does not teach the same thing, because there are hundreds of different teachings in religions (including those religions that claim to be the true religion), because religious people kill other religious people, saying "jesus" told them to do it?
Also, you still have not answer my biggest question, what did Jesus teach that was not in the Bible while he was on Earth?
Because I am not sure why you keep asking me that question considering what I wrote (in brackets) in post 29.

Though Christ did correct some things from scripture (such as the law on divorce) - telling people what was true from the beginning, but that Moses made allowance for the hard hearts of the people. So that a person listening to Christ knows that one cannot divorce (and remarry) without committing adultery, except on the grounds of unfaithfulness. But if a person chooses to listen to Moses over Christ, then a person might be just fine with divorce. Even though God does state in scripture that He hates divorce.

Christ also showed mercy to the woman caught in adultery, saving her life and keeping her from being stoned. "Let He who is without sin cast the first stone." This is in keeping with what God truly desires, "I desire mercy, not sacrifice." (Hosea 6:6). But the law permitted such a woman to be stoned, even appears at times to command it. So if a person was not listening to Christ to know what was true and what God truly desired, they might be okay with casting the first (or any) stone (or whatever the law of the land permitted at any given time instead of actual stoning).


The point is, as it has been from the start, that people listen to the bible and study it, but that does not mean that they are obeying or even believing Christ (the true Word of God, the Truth, the Light). Or that they even know Him (or His Father). Because it is from knowing Christ that one knows His Father also.

Christ is the authority over the Church. Not the bible.


(Edited to add: I am not a slave of "Jesus". I am a slave of Christ Jaheshua. Names are important, and my Lord's name is Jaheshua.)

Peace again to you, and to your loved ones,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #47

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:12 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:50 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:37 pm
He speaks in words. He speaks in visions. He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.
I will add that He also teaches by asking questions (just as He did with His apostles and disciples a couple thousand years ago). That is a powerful method of teaching.
Then why aren't all of you claim this same thing teaching the same thing? Why are there hundreds of different teachings? Why do some of you who say Jesus speaks to you in the ways you mentioned kill each other saying Jesus told them to do it? There are numerous people who think as you do, why is what Jesus teaching is teaching you superior to what he supposedly teaching others?
I answered this question in post 26.
It was not. Why did Jesus tell that lady to kill her husband? I mean if you say you hear Jesus then that must be what she heard. That is what she said.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

2timothy316
Under Probation
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:51 am
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #48

Post by 2timothy316 »

tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:12 pm
Also, you still have not answer my biggest question, what did Jesus teach that was not in the Bible while he was on Earth?
Because I am not sure why you keep asking me that question considering what I wrote (in brackets) in post 29.
Can't even give a single scripture that Jesus contradicted. But I knew you couldn't so your argument fails.

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #49

Post by tam »

Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:47 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:12 pm Peace to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:50 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:37 pm
He speaks in words. He speaks in visions. He speaks in dreams. He can also bring to mind something learned, read, or experienced in the past to help me see the truth in something He is teaching me. He has opened my eyes to something that is written, if I am reading the bible. He can and has read to me something that He is written to have said, so that I hear it in His voice. That was enlightening.

Sometimes when I am responding to something that someone else has asked, He will give me the words to say, or reveal something to me (as in open my heart and ears to understanding something) that I had not previously understood.


The language that He speaks is truth. He has never spoken anything to me that was not true, and that was not from love. And everything He teaches me deepens my understanding of love: His love and the love of His Father.
I will add that He also teaches by asking questions (just as He did with His apostles and disciples a couple thousand years ago). That is a powerful method of teaching.
Then why aren't all of you claim this same thing teaching the same thing? Why are there hundreds of different teachings? Why do some of you who say Jesus speaks to you in the ways you mentioned kill each other saying Jesus told them to do it? There are numerous people who think as you do, why is what Jesus teaching is teaching you superior to what he supposedly teaching others?
I answered this question in post 26.
It was not.
It was:

Matt 24:4,5; Matt 24:24; and sometimes also Acts 18:24-26

The above is true of individual people as well as of individual religions.

So we must test all things; hold all things up against the Light (that Light is Christ). Remain in HIM so as not to be deceived.



The very simple answer is that they are not all His sheep.


I also asked you a question. Might you answer that for me?



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

User avatar
tam
Savant
Posts: 6443
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:59 pm
Has thanked: 353 times
Been thanked: 324 times
Contact:

Re: Sola Scriptura?

Post #50

Post by tam »

Peace again to you,
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:49 pm
tam wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:12 pm
Also, you still have not answer my biggest question, what did Jesus teach that was not in the Bible while he was on Earth?
Because I am not sure why you keep asking me that question considering what I wrote (in brackets) in post 29.
Can't even give a single scripture that Jesus contradicted. But I knew you couldn't so your argument fails.
And what argument is that, timothy?

Peace again.

Post Reply