myth-one.com wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:24 pm
Dealing with "predestination"
If God has foreknowledge of how every individual will live their lives, then God knows who will accept and reject Jesus as their Savior from the wages of their sins in the future. God then elects or predestines those to be granted salvation as those who will accept Jesus as their Savior in the future. All others (those who will reject Jesus in their future) will be predestined to everlasting death. Therefore, the choice as to whether a person will be saved or not is no longer in God’s will, but it is in that person’s future choice about God’s gift of grace — whether to accept or reject Jesus. Under that explanation, there is no conflict between the elect and John 3:16. That is, the "elect" becomes the same as the "whosoever believeth" in John 3:16...
Well, let's just say -- just for the sake of discussion -- that I agree with your take. Given that I am in agreement -- which I am not, but again, we're just discussing this -- I see a
direct conflict between what you have said here and the what Paul says in Romans 9, particularly "... not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel... (God) says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy." If what you said is "A," then what Paul is saying is "NOT A," and the two cannot be reconciled. So, a little rethinking is in order, because Scripture is true and does not conflict... anywhere.
Regarding "whosoever believeth" -- again -- that idea and even that phraseology comes from the prophet Joel Paul draws upon that very passage, too, in Romans 9. So we need to look there, in Joel 2, to see and understand the full context. Joel says, “...And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls." So you see, it is the LORD who calls, and THEN those whom God has called will call on the LORD and be saved. John and Paul are both drawing from this very passage.
Regarding "foreknowledge" -- the common meaning of 'to foreknow' is to know something beforehand, in advance of its happening, but this is obviously not the apostle Paul's meaning in Romans 8:29-30 for at least three reasons:
1. God foreknows everybody and everything, whereas Paul is referring to a particular group.
2. If God predestines people because they are going to believe, then the ground of their salvation is in themselves and their merit, instead of in Him and His mercy, whereas Paul's whole emphasis is on God's free initiative of grace.
3. The verb 'to know' as it is used here in the Greek expresses much more than mere intellectual cognition; it denotes a personal relationship of care and affection. When God 'knows' people, He watches over them and cares for them. In Hebrew it's the same thing; in the Old Testament, Israel was the only people out of all the families of the earth whom YHVH had 'known,' that is, loved, chosen, and formed a covenant with. The meaning of 'foreknowledge' here and elsewhere in the New Testament is intimately similar. "Know' is used in a sense practically synonymous with 'love,' and "whom He foreknew" here in Romans 8 is synonymous with "whom He foreloved" -- sovereignly and distinguishingly chose, before the foundation of the world.
The ONLY source of divine election and predestination is divine love.
Grace and peace to all.