Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

[Checkpoint]

This thread covers an interesting and important subject for us to discuss and debate.

This first post is brief, and asks these questions:

1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

2a). Does the Bible give any direct or specific answers to question 1, in this verse, or anywhere else?

2b). If you conclude it does, where are the verses and what do they specify?

If you conclude it does not, why doesn't it do so?


3). The previous verse puts our subject in a different way.

26 Then God said, “Let Us/us make man in Our/our image, after our/Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

3a). Why is the difference there; plural in this verse, 26, and singular in verse 27?

3b). Who is "our/Our" and "Us/us" referring to? God as a Trinity, the angels, or?

3c). Do Christianity and Judaism give different answers to question 3b?
If so, what, and why?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #37]

Not gods (plural) god (singular): scripture indicates YHWH was speaking to The Word, his first and foremost spirit creation; later known as the human Jesus Christ.

Maybe, maybe not; can anyone be really sure about who He meant, and/or what is conveyed by "Let us/Us make man"..."in Our/our image".

I for sure am not, and do not expect to be in this life.

As for "the Word/Logos, this is another paradox to me.

I do not accept the usual explanation.

I also do not accept yours, "The Word, his first and foremost spirit creation; later known as the human Jesus Christ."

What I understand is that "the Logos became/was made flesh, and dwelt among us" as Jesus Christ, the Father's only-begotten son, whom He called "My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased", and commanded us to "Listen to him".

Yes, he is thus foremost or pre-eminent; but no, not as "first and foremost spiritual creation", like an angel.

I simply prefer what Matthew and Luke tell us of his virgin conception by the Spirit.

Guess I just though this may interest you as an aside, not intended to engender debate.

I really prefer to leave it at that!

I trust life is treating you well these days, onewithhim.

OK, we'll let it go. I think I understand that you don't believe that Jesus had a life before his conception into this world. OK.

Yes, Checkpoint, life is treating me quite well these days. I hope the same for you.

Thanks, onewithhim.

The same, at least inwardly. Not so much outwardly; getting old has its own story.

I do have one thing to ask of you, though.

In view of our shared belief that Jesus is not the one true God, how do you explain the existence of these two texts?

,.;'
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (Titus 2:13)

There is a similar verse in 1 or 2 Peter.

[PinSeeker]

Not gods (plural) god (singular): scripture indicates YHWH was speaking to The Word, his first and foremost spirit creation; later known as the human Jesus Christ.

Maybe, maybe not; can anyone be really sure about who He meant, and/or what is conveyed by "Let us/Us make man"..."in Our/our image".

Well, if it's not taken out of the context of the rest of Genesis 1, yes. We know that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit were present from (at the very least) verse 1 and 2 of Genesis itself. And from John 1:1, we know that the Word (even if the Word was only later to become the Son Jesus -- which is quite a silly thought) was present also. So yes, we can be absolutely sure.

We also know that this... being... did not cease to be the Word when He came into this world; the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14), or, as Paul says, He took the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men (Philippians 2:7).

And to that point, since we know -- again, from John 1:1 -- that all things were made (created) through Him, and without Him was not any thing made (created), Christ therefore cannot be created in any sense, because He was present when all things were made and all things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made.

So we know that He was not created -- as in never having before existed -- before the timeframe depicted in Genesis 1, and He was not created -- as in never having before existed -- in the two timeframes (the first being the beginning, and the second being at His birth) depicted in John 1. He is eternal, along with the the Father and the Holy Spirit, from eternity past to eternity future, from everlasting to everlasting. To deny this is exactly that... denial.

Yes, as many of us have said many times, there is One True God -- even Jehovah -- and He exists in three Persons.

...how do you explain the existence of these two texts?

looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (Titus 2:13)

There is a similar verse in 1 or 2 Peter.

I'd like to hear your answer to your own question, Checkpoint. I believe the verse you are referring to is 2 Peter 1:1 ("Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ...") And don't forget these, too:

• 1 Timothy 1:1 -- "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,"

• 1 Timothy 2:3 -- "This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior..."

• 1 Timothy 4:10 -- "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, Who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe."

• Titus 2:10 -- "...not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior."

• Titus 3:4 -- "But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared..."

The wording is not the exact same, but I'll throw in what Paul says in Colossians 1:15 -- that He, Jesus, is the image of the invisible God -- and say just a bit about it. There is a distinction to be made here, and that is that Jesus is the the image of God, whereas we and the rest of mankind are made in His image. That should say volumes, and does, but alas...

Grace and peace to all.

[William]

The Bible shows in many ways that Jesus had a beginning (Rev. 3:14). The simple fact of saying that he is the image of God (2 Cor. 4:4), shows that he had an origin (Col. 1:15-18), because to be the image of someone, that someone must be obviously prior and the image created later out of what he/it resembles.

When Jehovah speaks with someone else at the beginning of the rest of creation, it is obvious He is talking to His Firstborn, his begotten Son (John 1:1-3). It is obvious also, that if He made Jesus at His own image, saying that God would be making man to "their" image and likeness shows that the Firstborn was made at the image and likeness of God before. Perfect man, like Adam when created, was made at the image of both, of Jesus, and of God, the original and real source of every perfect intelligent creature in the Universe. Luk. 3:38 says that Adam was son of God.

I think that - given the evidence of the storyline [1st 2 chapters of Genesis] the "image of God" is not referring to the form, but the breath [consciousness] which allowed the form to be 'living'.

The form itself was obviously designed to restrict the consciousness [image of God] from realizing that it was "made in the image of God" - that it was 'of The Creator' rather than of 'of the form' [emergence theory].

For whatever reason Th Creator made the form this way, we can see by the unfolding storyline that the subsequent creation of the being called "Adam" was 'made ignorant' due to being cast within the human form.

God-Consciousness [Spirit. Breath of God.] requires knowledge as a natural reflex to ignorance, and - as the story goes - some knowledge was prohibited, and it was that very knowledge which Adam - naturally enough - coveted.

This was because there was something missing within his psyche. He was eternal... The Creator within the creation, but without knowing so. That lack of knowledge required being filled.

So naturally Adam would eventually move towards investigating that which was forbidden because in everything else in which he had freedom of access to, those things did not provide him with knowledge of himself - he was simply 'something created' and since the image of God cannot accept such a state of being, [for God was not created] he had to try out the forbidden in order to see if by doing so, he might be fulfilled.