Made In The Image And Likeness Of God

[Checkpoint]

This thread covers an interesting and important subject for us to discuss and debate.

This first post is brief, and asks these questions:

1). What is this Genesis 1:27 scripture telling us, as you understand it, about God, and about mankind?

So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

2a). Does the Bible give any direct or specific answers to question 1, in this verse, or anywhere else?

2b). If you conclude it does, where are the verses and what do they specify?

If you conclude it does not, why doesn't it do so?


3). The previous verse puts our subject in a different way.

26 Then God said, “Let Us/us make man in Our/our image, after our/Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every creature that crawls upon it.”

3a). Why is the difference there; plural in this verse, 26, and singular in verse 27?

3b). Who is "our/Our" and "Us/us" referring to? God as a Trinity, the angels, or?

3c). Do Christianity and Judaism give different answers to question 3b?
If so, what, and why?

[PinSeeker]

We live in a different time, with different principles, or similar ones practiced in a different way.

So why would living in a different time, with different principles, or similar ones practiced in a different way release you from god's command?

In reading the Bible from start to finish, one will notice a sharp contrast between the two testaments. The Old Testament is considerably more ruthless and bloody as compared with the New Testament. One explanation for this is the different requirements under which one could become an heir under the two testaments. Under the Old Testament one had to never sin. Therefore, any potential obstacle which might cause one to sin needed to be ruthlessly eliminated. Salvation was dependent upon one's works to fulfill the law.

By contrast, the New Testament theme is forgiveness and overcoming evil with good:

Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Romans 12:20-21)

So this reversal of philosophies may be due to the different requirements of the testaments.

After Jesus died for us, we fell under the grace of Jesus Christ for our salvation, not our works to fulfill the law. So sin does not control our salvation:

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

Sorry, but this comes across as cherry picking at its worst......... But to each his own.

I agree. There is nothing more ruthless than bloody and brutal than Christ Jesus beaten even beyond recognition as a man and then hanging by his nailed hands and feet on the cross, right? So:

• In both the Old Testament and New, keeping the law perfectly or anywhere close was impossible.

• In the Old Testament, the penalty for sin was death, and God provided for sacrifices -- which pointed to and were representative of the true Sacrifice to come -- to bear the guilt and thereby to provide redemption from and forgiveness for sin. The animal sacrifices could never truly do this, but only point forward to the Sacrifice that would accomplish it in full.

• In the New Testament, the penalty for sin was and is death, and God has provided the true Sacrifice -- in the person of Jesus Christ -- to bear the guilt of all sin, even that of the Old Testament that sacrifices of animals could never really do, and thereby to provide redemption from and forgiveness for sin. As Jesus said in His final cry on the cross, "It is finished!" It is finished... accomplished in full.

It's all one story, not two.

Grace and peace to all.

Grace and peace to all.

[myth-one.com]

• In both the Old Testament and New, keeping the law perfectly or anywhere close was impossible.

One man accomplished that feat -- proving it was possible.

• In the Old Testament, the penalty for sin was death, and God provided for sacrifices -- which pointed to and were representative of the true Sacrifice to come -- to bear the guilt and thereby to provide redemption from and forgiveness for sin. The animal sacrifices could never truly do this, but only point forward to the Sacrifice that would accomplish it in full.

• In the New Testament, the penalty for sin was and is death, and God has provided the true Sacrifice -- in the person of Jesus Christ -- to bear the guilt of all sin, even that of the Old Testament that sacrifices of animals could never really do, and thereby to provide redemption from and forgiveness for sin. As Jesus said in His final cry on the cross, "It is finished!" It is finished... accomplished in full.

Once Jesus was born as a man, He had no choice but to die the first death:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

As such, his death is not what saves us. His death ended His human life as the first and only human to qualify as an heir to everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant.

That is, the wages of sin is death, He never sinned, thus He is the only human due to inherit everlasting life under the original covenant between God and mankind.

He will not accept His inheritance, but offer it as a gift to all who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

Thus salvation becomes the gift of God through Jesus Christ:

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

It is a gift received after Jesus Christ's Second Coming:

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

All we have to do is accept or reject this gift of eternal life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

[Checkpoint]

Men who have sex with one another should be killed. Have you killed a homosexual? If not, why not?

You should never wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Hmmm. Have you checked the manufacture's label in your clothes lately?

You are obligated to marry and have sex with your sister-in-law if your No.

brother dies and they have no child? What if she's an insufferable skag? Really?

.

No, I do not think in those ways, and am not obligated to carry them out.

So the legitimacy of what the Bible says all depends on how you think. Is that it?

Not so. It depends on how God thinks and acts. And when and how He reveals any changes, and their purpose.

We live in a different time, with different principles, or similar ones practiced in a different way.

So why would living in a different time, with different principles, or similar ones practiced in a different way release you from god's command?

Because God ordains times and seasons, which do indeed vary from one another.

Two in particular, the two Covenants, the Old and the New.

Jesus himself introduced the New one, with its one sacrifice for eternity, himself.

To replace and supersede a multitude of sacrifices over a limited period.

Just one of many major differences.

Not of man's thinking or planning, but of God's.

I'm sure you realize that his commands whether they're characterized as a commandment, order, decree, or some other form are good for all eternity.

What I realize is that some were never intended to be 'good for all eternity', such as literal physical circumcision.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord remains forever.” And this word is the good news that was preached to you.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

Isaiah 40:8
The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

.

[PinSeeker]

• In both the Old Testament and New, keeping the law perfectly or anywhere close was impossible.

One man accomplished that feat -- proving it was possible.

Yes, God is capable of fulfilling His own law, and yes, Jesus, the second Person of the triune Jehovah -- God the Son -- having been born of woman and also in the form of man, did just that. Thank you.

Grace and peace to all.

[myth-one.com]

• In both the Old Testament and New, keeping the law perfectly or anywhere close was impossible.

One man accomplished that feat -- proving it was possible.

Yes, God is capable of fulfilling His own law, and yes, Jesus, the second Person of the triune Jehovah -- God the Son -- having been born of woman and also in the form of man, did just that. Thank you.

Grace and peace to all.

The Old Testament defines a covenant between God and mankind.

If Jesus was fully God and fully man as you have often claimed in the past, then His living a sinless life is a moot point -- as He was not a man.

And if He was not fully a man, He was not covered under that covenant between God and man.

Do you understand?

It's kinda a legal thing.

And if Jesus did not qualify as an heir unto salvation under that original covenant, then He cannot freely offer His inheritance to those who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant -- as He has no inheritance under the Old Testament to offer.

Oh well, you've heard it before.

[Miles]

.

Note. Because the nesting of posts here on Debating Christianity is so aggravating, I went to the trouble to re-post and reconfigure the first part of our conversation so it can be more easily understood. The rest of our discussion I've chosen to ignore because it's a mess.

Men who have sex with one another should be killed. Have you killed a homosexual? If not, why not?

You should never wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Hmmm. Have you checked the manufacture's label in your clothes lately?

You are obligated to marry and have sex with your sister-in-law if your No.

brother dies and they have no child? What if she's an insufferable skag? Really?

No, I do not think in those ways, and am not obligated to carry them out.

So the legitimacy of what the Bible says all depends on how you think. Is that it?

Not so. It depends on how God thinks and acts. And when and how He reveals any changes, and their purpose.

Then whatever god directs you to to do in no way obligates you to do it. Okay. Understood

.

[PinSeeker]

Do you understand?

I understand well what you think you understand, yes.

Oh well, you've heard it before.

Yes I have, way too many times.

Grace and peace to you.

[Checkpoint]

.

Note. Because the nesting of posts here on Debating Christianity is so aggravating, I went to the trouble to re-post and reconfigure the first part of our conversation so it can be more easily understood. The rest of our discussion I've chosen to ignore because it's a mess.

Noted.

Men who have sex with one another should be killed. Have you killed a homosexual? If not, why not?

I am a follower of Jesus; see John 8:1-11.

You should never wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Hmmm. Have you checked the manufacture's label in your clothes lately?

You are obligated to marry and have sex with your sister-in-law if your No.

brother dies and they have no child? What if she's an insufferable skag? Really?

No, I do not think in those ways, and am not obligated to carry them out.

So the legitimacy of what the Bible says all depends on how you think. Is that it?

Not so. It depends on how God thinks and acts. And when and how He reveals any changes, and their purpose.

Then whatever god directs you to to do in no way obligates you to do it. Okay. Understood

.

No you do not understand.

What you advocate that I am obligated to do was directed to those who were then God's chosen people, the Israelites.

Those instructions comprised The first Covenant; now called The Old Covenant. Found in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers.

I am not an Israelite.

[Miles]

.

Note. Because the nesting of posts here on Debating Christianity is so aggravating, I went to the trouble to re-post and reconfigure the first part of our conversation so it can be more easily understood. The rest of our discussion I've chosen to ignore because it's a mess.

Noted.

Men who have sex with one another should be killed. Have you killed a homosexual? If not, why not?

I am a follower of Jesus; see John 8:1-11.

You should never wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. Hmmm. Have you checked the manufacture's label in your clothes lately?

You are obligated to marry and have sex with your sister-in-law if your No.

brother dies and they have no child? What if she's an insufferable skag? Really?

No, I do not think in those ways, and am not obligated to carry them out.

So the legitimacy of what the Bible says all depends on how you think. Is that it?

Not so. It depends on how God thinks and acts. And when and how He reveals any changes, and their purpose.

Then whatever god directs you to to do in no way obligates you to do it. Okay. Understood

.

No you do not understand.

What you advocate that I am obligated to do was directed to those who were then God's chosen people, the Israelites.

Those instructions comprised The first Covenant; now called The Old Covenant. Found in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers.

I am not an Israelite.

So the Ten Commandments don't apply to you either. Hmmm, how very odd.

However, I'm curious as to where it's stated that everything said in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers only apply to Israelites. Is there some chapter and verse or is this a notion that comes from your theology/apologetics?



.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Miles in post #29]

Checkpoint wrote

No you do not understand.


What you advocate that I am obligated to do was directed to those who were then God's chosen people, the Israelites.

Those instructions comprised The first Covenant; now called The Old Covenant. Found in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers.

I am not an Israelite.

So the Ten Commandments don't apply to you either. Hmmm, how very odd.

However, I'm curious as to where it's stated that everything said in Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and Numbers only apply to Israelites. Is there some chapter and verse or is this a notion that comes from your theology/apologetics?

No. the 10 commandments do apply to me as a Christian. However, like everything else, through the Jesus Christ/New Covenant lens.

My theology/apologetics comes from the New Testament/Covenant.

Chapter and verse? There are plenty.

I suggest you start with these two chapters, 2 Corinthians 3 and Hebrews 8.

We'll see where these lead us!