The Doctrine of Satan

[William]

William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 pm

IF Jesus 'died that we may live" "For The Creator so loved the world...that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" THEN what does that actually mean, if all are eternal beings already?

Are you asking this rhetorically? Or is this really a question in your mind? It's a good question. Maybe you're asking it of myth-one so that he might re-think his position(s)?

It is a bit of both really.

It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan.

It is not really so much a 'manual for life given to us from a God' so much as it is an "explanation of Satan and the effect that entity has in relation to other spirit beings"

Christians often invoke "The Devil" as a retort when it becomes obvious to them that those they are trying to convince that their particular religion is the one to follow, reject their cliam. Any opposition to their position, is regarded as "The Devil".

Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions.

So never-to-mind the conflicting versions of The Creator they have imaged into the world...if we look at what they claim about Satan, are they united in those claims?

One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form.

So Satan is something of an accuser. He is also portrayed as someone who likes to seed doubt into the individual, and confusion as consequence.

The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god.

Obviously he cannot make his fellow eternal beings follow along with his crazy notions as they are equal to him in every way. Satan has this weird image of The Creator which he wants to bring into the spirt realm...a being on a throne worshiped as The Creator of all that is.

However, according to Christian mythology, this being actually does sit on a throne being worshipped by spirit beings [Angels etc] which seems to contradict the prior story, which leads to confusion.

The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that.

So now we are looking at spirit beings worshiping an image of The Creator on a throne and Satan wanting to be an actual representation of the image being worship. He wanted to fill that position with a real being [him] rather than the one conjured up by Angels [eternal spiritual entities]

"NO!" Shout the Christians! The Creator was already the real being on The Throne! Satan wanted that position!

But that contradicts the idea that Satan wanted to be in a position even better [higher] than simply being the one on The Throne.

According to the general mythology, some of the fellow Angels got on board with Satan's idea while others [the greater number of] rejected the idea.

Then there is some almost nonsensical claims that somehow the greater number of Angels overpowered Satan and his followers, and The Creator on the throne then created the physical universe as a sure way to imprison eternal beings away from them having any more disruptive influence in the none material universe of the Angels [Angelic Realm] and their Creator.

Satan - thus incarcerated - then found a way in which he could disrupt the Angelic Realm by creating human beings.

"NO" shout the Christians. The Creator created human beings!

"Okay" I reply, "If that is the case, why did The Creator place spiritual entities into the human domain [physical universe]?"

The general reply is that it was 'the other way around' The Creator placed human beings into the same Universe [!!] in which The Creator had created to imprison Satan and his followers in.

So then one is entitled [and wise] to ask "Why" The Creator did this.

The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers.

So then we enter the Garden of Eden Story...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

[William]

......the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

I would say there is simply no reason for it to be true. I think it is obvious for everyone who reads the book.

Then let us examine the book to see if your claim is correct...I have already used script from the book to support the assertion...

[William]

......the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

I would say there is simply no reason for it to be true. I think it is obvious for everyone who reads the book.

Why would you say that? Is Satan not able to deceive the nations? Is Jesus not able to save them?

Is Lucifer Satan?

[1213]

....I have already used script from the book to support the assertion...

Sorry, what was the scripture, I don’t think you have shown any that supports your claim that “the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers”.

[William]

....I have already used script from the book to support the assertion...

Sorry, what was the scripture, I don’t think you have shown any that supports your claim that “the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers”.

Nor have you shown that it isn't. That is the purpose of this thread - The OP clearly enough maps out the territory to be debated, and ends with the debate question "Is there any reason why the above isn't true?"

You appear to think that there is, so "ready when you are buddy"...

[myth-one.com]

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

So you've read the whole Bible?

[William]

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

So you've read the whole Bible?

What do you have to show me from the bible, that my understanding about the bible is incorrect here?

[myth-one.com]

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

So you've read the whole Bible?

What do you have to show me from the bible, that my understanding about the bible is incorrect here?

How does that answer my question?

[William]

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

So you've read the whole Bible?

What do you have to show me from the bible, that my understanding about the bible is incorrect here?

How does that answer my question?

I suggest you review the OP statement and then answer the OP question, with accompanying support which shows my assertion is incorrect.
That is the purpose of the debate forums.

Asking me if I have read the whole bible or not is irrelevant to the debate subject.

[myth-one.com]

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

So you've read the whole Bible?

What do you have to show me from the bible, that my understanding about the bible is incorrect here?

How does that answer my question?

I suggest you review the OP statement and then answer the OP question, with accompanying support which shows my assertion is incorrect.
That is the purpose of the debate forums.

Asking me if I have read the whole bible or not is irrelevant to the debate subject.

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

What do you have to show me from the bible, that proves your understanding about the bible is correct here?

[William]

...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

So you've read the whole Bible?

What do you have to show me from the bible, that my understanding about the bible is incorrect here?

How does that answer my question?

I suggest you review the OP statement and then answer the OP question, with accompanying support which shows my assertion is incorrect.
That is the purpose of the debate forums.

Asking me if I have read the whole bible or not is irrelevant to the debate subject.

It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan.

It is not really so much a 'manual for life given to us from a God' so much as it is an "explanation of Satan and the effect that entity has in relation to other spirit beings"

Christians often invoke "The Devil" as a retort when it becomes obvious to them that those they are trying to convince that their particular religion is the one to follow, reject their cliam. Any opposition to their position, is regarded as "The Devil".

Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions.

So never-to-mind the conflicting versions of The Creator they have imaged into the world...if we look at what they claim about Satan, are they united in those claims?

One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form.

So Satan is something of an accuser. He is also portrayed as someone who likes to seed doubt into the individual, and confusion as consequence.

The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god.

Obviously he cannot make his fellow eternal beings follow along with his crazy notions as they are equal to him in every way. Satan has this weird image of The Creator which he wants to bring into the spirt realm...a being on a throne worshiped as The Creator of all that is.

However, according to Christian mythology, this being actually does sit on a throne being worshipped by spirit beings [Angels etc] which seems to contradict the prior story, which leads to confusion.

The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that.

So now we are looking at spirit beings worshiping an image of The Creator on a throne and Satan wanting to be an actual representation of the image being worship. He wanted to fill that position with a real being [him] rather than the one conjured up by Angels [eternal spiritual entities]

"NO!" Shout the Christians! The Creator was already the real being on The Throne! Satan wanted that position!

But that contradicts the idea that Satan wanted to be in a position even better [higher] than simply being the one on The Throne.

According to the general mythology, some of the fellow Angels got on board with Satan's idea while others [the greater number of] rejected the idea.

Then there is some almost nonsensical claims that somehow the greater number of Angels overpowered Satan and his followers, and The Creator on the throne then created the physical universe as a sure way to imprison eternal beings away from them having any more disruptive influence in the none material universe of the Angels [Angelic Realm] and their Creator.

Satan - thus incarcerated - then found a way in which he could disrupt the Angelic Realm by creating human beings.

"NO" shout the Christians. The Creator created human beings!

"Okay" I reply, "If that is the case, why did The Creator place spiritual entities into the human domain [physical universe]?"

The general reply is that it was 'the other way around' The Creator placed human beings into the same Universe [!!] in which The Creator had created to imprison Satan and his followers in.

So then one is entitled [and wise] to ask "Why" The Creator did this.

The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers.

So then we enter the Garden of Eden Story...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

What do you have to show me from the bible, that proves your understanding about the bible is correct here?

Look at what I have written. It is not claiming that my understanding of the bible is correct. What do you have in the way of reason to show why my understanding of the bible isn't correct?