The Doctrine of Satan

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William
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The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by William »

William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 pm
IF Jesus 'died that we may live" "For The Creator so loved the world...that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" THEN what does that actually mean, if all are eternal beings already?
PinSeeker wrote:Are you asking this rhetorically? Or is this really a question in your mind? It's a good question. Maybe you're asking it of myth-one so that he might re-think his position(s)?
It is a bit of both really.

It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan.

It is not really so much a 'manual for life given to us from a God' so much as it is an "explanation of Satan and the effect that entity has in relation to other spirit beings"

Christians often invoke "The Devil" as a retort when it becomes obvious to them that those they are trying to convince that their particular religion is the one to follow, reject their cliam. Any opposition to their position, is regarded as "The Devil".

Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions.

So never-to-mind the conflicting versions of The Creator they have imaged into the world...if we look at what they claim about Satan, are they united in those claims?

One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form.

So Satan is something of an accuser. He is also portrayed as someone who likes to seed doubt into the individual, and confusion as consequence.

The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god.

Obviously he cannot make his fellow eternal beings follow along with his crazy notions as they are equal to him in every way. Satan has this weird image of The Creator which he wants to bring into the spirt realm...a being on a throne worshiped as The Creator of all that is.

However, according to Christian mythology, this being actually does sit on a throne being worshipped by spirit beings [Angels etc] which seems to contradict the prior story, which leads to confusion.

The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that.

So now we are looking at spirit beings worshiping an image of The Creator on a throne and Satan wanting to be an actual representation of the image being worship. He wanted to fill that position with a real being [him] rather than the one conjured up by Angels [eternal spiritual entities]

"NO!" Shout the Christians! The Creator was already the real being on The Throne! Satan wanted that position!

But that contradicts the idea that Satan wanted to be in a position even better [higher] than simply being the one on The Throne.

According to the general mythology, some of the fellow Angels got on board with Satan's idea while others [the greater number of] rejected the idea.

Then there is some almost nonsensical claims that somehow the greater number of Angels overpowered Satan and his followers, and The Creator on the throne then created the physical universe as a sure way to imprison eternal beings away from them having any more disruptive influence in the none material universe of the Angels [Angelic Realm] and their Creator.

Satan - thus incarcerated - then found a way in which he could disrupt the Angelic Realm by creating human beings.

"NO" shout the Christians. The Creator created human beings!

"Okay" I reply, "If that is the case, why did The Creator place spiritual entities into the human domain [physical universe]?"

The general reply is that it was 'the other way around' The Creator placed human beings into the same Universe [!!] in which The Creator had created to imprison Satan and his followers in.

So then one is entitled [and wise] to ask "Why" The Creator did this.

The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers.

So then we enter the Garden of Eden Story...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by William »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:12 pm
William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 pm What do you believe you will be doing with this everlasting life?
After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

So Jesus will defeat Satan and the Earth will become part of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus will then rule the Earth from new Jerusalem for ever and ever. What will born again Christians be doing?

...we shall also reign with him. (II Timothy 2:12)

And how long will we be on the Earth reigning with Jesus? For eternity:

...and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)
To me this is a feasible plan of action in relation to 'what to do about Satan and his followers" because it gives Satan a universe he can rule over from a throne and his followers can worship him in that demoted position.

For it certainly is a demoted position, compared with the position of The Creator on the throne in the immaterial realms of Angels.

But it is something of a 'Win Win" in relation to restoring the equilibrium you worded as "Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:"

A lower part most certainly, but one which will tick along in a manner which will not cause any problems in The Heavenly Realms, simply by existing. Job well done and according to plan.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by myth-one.com »

William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:32 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:12 pm
William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:19 pm What do you believe you will be doing with this everlasting life?
After the Second Coming and Jesus' defeat of Satan, the Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:

The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Revelation 11:15)

So Jesus will defeat Satan and the Earth will become part of the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus will then rule the Earth from new Jerusalem for ever and ever. What will born again Christians be doing?

...we shall also reign with him. (II Timothy 2:12)

And how long will we be on the Earth reigning with Jesus? For eternity:

...and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)
To me this is a feasible plan of action in relation to 'what to do about Satan and his followers" because it gives Satan a universe he can rule over from a throne and his followers can worship him in that demoted position.

For it certainly is a demoted position, compared with the position of The Creator on the throne in the immaterial realms of Angels.

But it is something of a 'Win Win" in relation to restoring the equilibrium you worded as "Earth will once again become part of the kingdom:"

A lower part most certainly, but one which will tick along in a manner which will not cause any problems in The Heavenly Realms, simply by existing. Job well done and according to plan.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

That's a win?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #4

Post by William »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:48 pm

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

That's a win?
Yes of course it is. "The Devil" is simply a costume - it appears Satan has been replaced by Jesus as the one who sits on the earthly throne being worshipped as an image of The Creator.

In actual fact Jesus represents a somewhat reformed Satan. The old image of Satan has been replaced with the new image of Jesus.

Same activity is happening. The followers of Satan are still worshipping an image on a throne, but the image has changed, just as the worshippers have changed.
In that light, the "Confinement has worked" as Satan is now Jesus, and in that, reflecting a better image of The Creator in the Heavenly Realms...so "win win"...Jesus and his followers get to play nicely in this physical universe for at least as long as this physical universe exists... which at least is nigh on 'forever'...

What's not to like about it? A great plan executed!

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by myth-one.com »

William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:09 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:48 pm

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

That's a win?
Yes of course it is. "The Devil" is simply a costume - it appears Satan has been replaced by Jesus as the one who sits on the earthly throne being worshipped as an image of The Creator.

In actual fact Jesus represents a somewhat reformed Satan. The old image of Satan has been replaced with the new image of Jesus.

Same activity is happening. The followers of Satan are still worshipping an image on a throne, but the image has changed, just as the worshippers have changed.
In that light, the "Confinement has worked" as Satan is now Jesus, and in that, reflecting a better image of The Creator in the Heavenly Realms...so "win win"...Jesus and his followers get to play nicely in this physical universe for at least as long as this physical universe exists... which at least is nigh on 'forever'...

What's not to like about it? A great plan executed!
Is Satan okay with the being tormented 24/7 for ever and ever and ever . . . . .

Sounds like he drew the short straw.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #6

Post by William »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:40 pm
William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:09 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:48 pm

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

That's a win?
Yes of course it is. "The Devil" is simply a costume - it appears Satan has been replaced by Jesus as the one who sits on the earthly throne being worshipped as an image of The Creator.

In actual fact Jesus represents a somewhat reformed Satan. The old image of Satan has been replaced with the new image of Jesus.

Same activity is happening. The followers of Satan are still worshipping an image on a throne, but the image has changed, just as the worshippers have changed.
In that light, the "Confinement has worked" as Satan is now Jesus, and in that, reflecting a better image of The Creator in the Heavenly Realms...so "win win"...Jesus and his followers get to play nicely in this physical universe for at least as long as this physical universe exists... which at least is nigh on 'forever'...

What's not to like about it? A great plan executed!
Is Satan okay with the being tormented 24/7 for ever and ever and ever . . . . .

Sounds like he drew the short straw.
Read what I said again. "Satan" is simply an image a costume a disguise etc...throwing that in a fire, is akin to destroying an old garment no longer fit for purpose. It is not an actual spiritual being [ex-angel] as that being has transformed into the image of Jesus [now wears the Jesus Garment.]

No Actual Eternal Beings have been hurt in the whole process [or could even be hurt in the process]. A few bruised egos maybe ... nothing more than that...

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by William »

When Christians fall silent, often the sound of that silence makes way for the sound of the truth to prevail...

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by myth-one.com »

William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:49 pm"Satan" is simply an image a costume a disguise etc...throwing that in a fire, is akin to destroying an old garment no longer fit for purpose.
And will the costume feel the torment for ever & ever?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by William »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:09 pm
William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:49 pm"Satan" is simply an image a costume a disguise etc...throwing that in a fire, is akin to destroying an old garment no longer fit for purpose.
And will the costume feel the torment for ever & ever?
Seriously?

You think perhaps garments are sentient?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #10

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:21 pm ......the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?
I would say there is simply no reason for it to be true. I think it is obvious for everyone who reads the book.

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