The Doctrine of Satan

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William
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The Doctrine of Satan

Post #1

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William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 pm
IF Jesus 'died that we may live" "For The Creator so loved the world...that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" THEN what does that actually mean, if all are eternal beings already?
PinSeeker wrote:Are you asking this rhetorically? Or is this really a question in your mind? It's a good question. Maybe you're asking it of myth-one so that he might re-think his position(s)?
It is a bit of both really.

It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan.

It is not really so much a 'manual for life given to us from a God' so much as it is an "explanation of Satan and the effect that entity has in relation to other spirit beings"

Christians often invoke "The Devil" as a retort when it becomes obvious to them that those they are trying to convince that their particular religion is the one to follow, reject their cliam. Any opposition to their position, is regarded as "The Devil".

Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions.

So never-to-mind the conflicting versions of The Creator they have imaged into the world...if we look at what they claim about Satan, are they united in those claims?

One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form.

So Satan is something of an accuser. He is also portrayed as someone who likes to seed doubt into the individual, and confusion as consequence.

The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god.

Obviously he cannot make his fellow eternal beings follow along with his crazy notions as they are equal to him in every way. Satan has this weird image of The Creator which he wants to bring into the spirt realm...a being on a throne worshiped as The Creator of all that is.

However, according to Christian mythology, this being actually does sit on a throne being worshipped by spirit beings [Angels etc] which seems to contradict the prior story, which leads to confusion.

The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that.

So now we are looking at spirit beings worshiping an image of The Creator on a throne and Satan wanting to be an actual representation of the image being worship. He wanted to fill that position with a real being [him] rather than the one conjured up by Angels [eternal spiritual entities]

"NO!" Shout the Christians! The Creator was already the real being on The Throne! Satan wanted that position!

But that contradicts the idea that Satan wanted to be in a position even better [higher] than simply being the one on The Throne.

According to the general mythology, some of the fellow Angels got on board with Satan's idea while others [the greater number of] rejected the idea.

Then there is some almost nonsensical claims that somehow the greater number of Angels overpowered Satan and his followers, and The Creator on the throne then created the physical universe as a sure way to imprison eternal beings away from them having any more disruptive influence in the none material universe of the Angels [Angelic Realm] and their Creator.

Satan - thus incarcerated - then found a way in which he could disrupt the Angelic Realm by creating human beings.

"NO" shout the Christians. The Creator created human beings!

"Okay" I reply, "If that is the case, why did The Creator place spiritual entities into the human domain [physical universe]?"

The general reply is that it was 'the other way around' The Creator placed human beings into the same Universe [!!] in which The Creator had created to imprison Satan and his followers in.

So then one is entitled [and wise] to ask "Why" The Creator did this.

The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers.

So then we enter the Garden of Eden Story...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #63

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William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 pm
IF Jesus 'died that we may live" "For The Creator so loved the world...that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" THEN what does that actually mean, if all are eternal beings already?
PinSeeker wrote:Are you asking this rhetorically? Or is this really a question in your mind? It's a good question. Maybe you're asking it of myth-one so that he might re-think his position(s)?
Yes. Rethinking position is important. Not just Myth-One, but Tammy and The Tanager and Others I have been in argument with regarding this question.

The answer I have procured through investigation and footwork for most of my lifetime in human form, is elegant enough [and therefore based in love] - the answer to my question is that Christ knows we are all Eternal beings who have always existed and are currently within instruments [human forms] which - for the most part - are designed to inhibit recollection of prior existence.

Christ knows the creative power of Spirit imagination based upon ignorance and its effect in "The Fathers Kingdom" [metaphysical universe] - how its more negative affects have been contained so as not to leak out and corrupt the rest of The Fathers Creations...which of course, would be impossible, so is not really 'why' such things are contained.

Do "Spirits" come from this place of containment? Perhaps they passed through it on the way to somewhere else, and got caught up in the drama of forgetting themselves?

What does Satan provide us? A roof over our heads? Food in our tummies? Children?
What we are told is that he provides doubt in ourselves. He provides accusation. He demands worship. He lies and deceives.

So who told you that you were "Naked"? Satan?

Who told you that you were "Human"? Who hid from you, your true identity of "Spirit"?

I think the true answer is "You Did", whoever it is that you think you are...

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #64

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William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm Yes. Rethinking position is important.
Right. I would humbly suggest you do just that. :)

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #65

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PinSeeker wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:59 pm
William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:15 pm Yes. Rethinking position is important.
Right. I would humbly suggest you do just that. :)

Grace and peace to you.
Do you have any humble suggestions on what position Is better to adopt in regard to rethinking, because your suggestion as it stands is empty of reason, humbly stated or otherwise.

UBH

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #66

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William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:33 pm Do you have any humble suggestions on what position Is better to adopt in regard to rethinking, because your suggestion as it stands is empty of reason, humbly stated or otherwise.
So, as for any suggestions I might have, what are the positions you see on this "doctrine of Satan," as you put it?

As for what I suggested previously, yes, there's no reason given, because I'm sort of banking on your ability to reason well for yourself.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #67

Post by William »

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #67]

I have been. Post #63 is an example. Perhaps you missed the reasons which you then forgot to include when you quoted me out of context.

What about that post has you humbly suggesting i should do a rethink?
Last edited by William on Fri May 07, 2021 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #69

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It is an interesting question - "How did the historical Jesus become famous?" - considering the supposed 'god of this world' is Lucifer.
Given the two are supposed enemies in opposition [competition] why would Lucifer allow Jesus to become famous in this world?

Does the answer swing back to the thread topic re one of the OP statements...

"Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions."

So Christianity exists
a) Because Lucifer let's it exist
b) Jesus somehow out-maneuvered Lucifer and got a strong-ish foothold in Lucifer's world.
c) Because Jesus and Lucifer are the same being playing two major roles.

All are possibly reasons, but which one would be more likely, and why?

Image

What say ye all Christians?

I myself think [c] is worth investigating, which is why I created this thread.

The way most Christians tell it [believe] - it is [b} with the addition that Jesus will eventually come back [all guns a-blazin'] and take his part of the prize...[beliefs vary on that theme as to what chunk/portion Jesus will get.]

But [b} could be a ruse that Lucifer is using in relation to [a].

So the place to be looking is in any document which has the two actually together and see what can be revealed therein...

Matthew 4:1-11

1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.


What if - all along - [a] is correct regarding everything related to us and this planet?

What if Lucifer is "The Father" whom Jesus referred to as "My Father"?

Does that beam light into the dark, or surround the light in darkness?

Image

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

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