Myth-one.com wrote:The Garden is part of the earth which God gave Satan the power to rule over:
And the devil, taking him (Jesus) up into a high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whosoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. (Luke 4:5-7)
So there's no reason why Satan shouldn't be there, probably with other angels under his command.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pmOkay. Accepting that, we now have something of confirmation re my hunch that the bible is a story regarding humans and Satan, is a correct perception.
That is what I wrote in the OP;
"It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan."
Myth-one.com wrote:
Whatever.
To continue, after creating the heaven and the earth good in verse one of Genesis chapter 1, Satan and a host of angels under his command were assigned to care for and have dominion over the earth.
William wrote:Do you have support for this claim?
You just accepted above that Satan ruled over the earth and had underlings under his command.
myth-one wrote:But Satan decided sometime between the first two verses of the Bible to rebel against God. The ultimate results of his rebellion and rule are the conditions of chaos described on the earth in verse two.
William wrote:That is why I wrote "The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god." in the OP.
Satan wanted to become like the most high God. God the Father.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pm
So in that the Physical Universe, and primarily planet Earth are where these rebellious ones were sent. Assigned to "to care for and have dominion over the earth" as you put it...[not such a bad punishment for the uprising I suppose...]
No, they were initially
assigned there as their place of work -- the earth was their "first estate" according to the Bible. They were created to live on and maintain the earth.
Those angels under Satan's control who rebelled are presently in "chains" awaiting judgment after the Second Coming of Christ:
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)
Being on the earth was not and is not now a punishment. No other place in the universe has been found that could support physical life. And actually, it's worse that that. Man can comfortably survive only within a 4-5 mile thick area from the surface of the earth. And we are quickly destroying that area.
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!... For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. (Isaiah 14:12-14)
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pm
Yes - that is why I wrote "The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that." in the OP...
How can one "fall from heaven" if one has not even "ascended into heaven"? What are 'the stars of God"?
"Stars" is symbolism for angels in the Bible.
For example, although I do not know the exact number, one-third of the number of angels under Satan's control joined in his rebellion against God:
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth... (Revelation 12:4)
Myth-one.com wrote:The revolution was defeated, and Satan and his angels were cast back to the earth:
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pm
So how did they rise into the atmosphere? Did they have aircraft?
Little is said about angels or gods, except that they are immortal spiritual bodied beings, are not restrained by the physical world, and can move "as the wind." Mankind cannot understand things within the spiritual world.
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:9)
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pm
So this all happened before the Human form was created...
Yes, billions of years before.
At this point God intervened and went to Plan B.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pm
The God had a plan "B" "Just in case" I suppose...So - from what you claim here, this was all happening long before the Earth stabilized enough for lifeforms to be able to be created from it...even before the dinosaurs...
Adam and Eve were created about 6,000 years ago.
But the universe is about 13.8 billion years old, and the earth is about 4.54 billion years old.
Myth-one.com wrote:He returned and re-created the earth to it's original good condition, and made mortal mankind a little lower than the angels to be trained as replacement eternal caretakers for those who rebelled.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pm
So no - The Earth was created 'good' from the go get, and Lucifer and his team of gardeners were given the task of taking care of it, and Lucifer did not like this lowly station and formulated a plan in which he and the others could fly up into the clouds and take over Heaven and replace those in charge of Heaven with himself and his supporters.
His plans didn't work out and the Earth was decimated as a result of the conflict that happened.
Close. I don't know what the job requirements for taking care of a planet are. And they probably aren't slowed down by having to fly. At the speeds man can reach today, it would take about 70,000 years to reach Alpha Centauri, the nearest star -- which is only 4 light years from earth.
Man was commanded to "replenish" the earth. Replenish means restore to a former level or condition.
The Earth was not decimated as a result of the conflict! The earth came to be without form, void, and dark as a result of those who
abandoned their responsibilities of caring for the earth. Whatever they were supposed to do, did not be done.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pmThe Creator then recreated the Earth back to its former glory...so - why - if The Creator could do this, was Lucifer and his fellow gardeners required to keep up maintenance mk1 Earth?
You're speaking in tongues again. What is mk1? Are you referring to the Volkswagen Golf Mk1?
Myth-one.com wrote:Man was given dominion over the earth and commanded to replenish the earth, thus replacing the angels.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pmBy "Angels", I suppose you are referring to Lucifer and his cohorts...
Yes, specifically those angels assigned to the earth who rebelled.
Myth-one.com wrote:The original angels assigned to the earth were obviously not respecters of God at the time of their rebellion. These lower beings (mankind) must respect and believe in the Son of God as a prerequisite to becoming a spiritual being which lives forever.
William wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:01 pmSo in that, despite this attempt at a takeover, The Creator - after pushing back the rebellion and assault against heaven, repairing the damage caused by that event, [plan "B" as you referred to it] creating Human Forms in which to put Spirits into, to do the task originally assigned to Lucifer and company, then allows that upstart to have influence in regard to plan B?
No. Plan A was creating immortal angels to be earthly caretakers.
Plan B was creating
mortal mankind, giving them a taste of life, and allowing them to accept or reject the job eternally by becoming angels.
Myth-one.com wrote:Man is in training to learn that the best way to rule the earth is under the rules of God:
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
Myth-one.com wrote:We learn this lesson by trying our way and failing. The answers about the best way to live are sealed in the scriptures. We learn them through trial and error and hard knocks if at all.
William wrote:So in that, it is not necessarily that "the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers." but it is a case that - as I noted in the OP, "One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form."
THERE ARE NO SPIRITS INCARCERATED IN HUMAN FORMS!
Why do you think there are?
Why would any spirit want to be in a physical body? Perhaps the masochist angels?
There are two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual.
There is no hybrid being consisting of a spirit or soul living within a physical body described anywhere in the scriptures! Man is a natural body, and angels are spiritual bodies. Therefore, man remains lower than the angels.
The Bible specifically states that they do not mix. The natural body comes first and is then followed by the spiritual body:
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)
The natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last if at all. They are different and are never merged together at anytime in the scriptures! All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and those who believe in Jesus will be born again as spiritual bodies when Jesus returns!
Myth-one.com wrote:The conclusion of each person's short human life on earth should be to learn that there is a better way to live, God's way. Having learned this lesson, these new spirits being produced for the Kingdom of God, should be less inclined to revolt.
William wrote:If they understood from the go-get that they [Spirits] are aspects of The Creator within form, . . .
Spirits don't have a form and do not need a form.
Form is a characteristic of the physical world.
Spirits do not need to be seen.
William wrote:The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers."
The human form was not designed to house Satan and his followers.
Man is relatively new on the scale of the time.
God existed from the beginning.
Do you think God was somehow restricted in his interaction with the physical world because he did not have a physical form?
Man fears things which he does not understand, the unknown.
Man makes up myths to assuage our fears.
Myth one is the immortal soul myth -- that all mankind is created with an immortal part which lives forever after the body dies. This myth began with the serpent telling mankind that they would surely not die. It is based on denial. We fear death, so we fight this fear through denial -- claiming immortality.
Let's call your myth of "spirits living within a human form" myth two.
What is the origin of your myth two?