The Doctrine of Satan

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The Doctrine of Satan

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Post by William »

William wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:08 pm
IF Jesus 'died that we may live" "For The Creator so loved the world...that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life" THEN what does that actually mean, if all are eternal beings already?
PinSeeker wrote:Are you asking this rhetorically? Or is this really a question in your mind? It's a good question. Maybe you're asking it of myth-one so that he might re-think his position(s)?
It is a bit of both really.

It appears to me that the Bible is an outline of the story of human beings in relation to Satan.

It is not really so much a 'manual for life given to us from a God' so much as it is an "explanation of Satan and the effect that entity has in relation to other spirit beings"

Christians often invoke "The Devil" as a retort when it becomes obvious to them that those they are trying to convince that their particular religion is the one to follow, reject their cliam. Any opposition to their position, is regarded as "The Devil".

Indeed, it is apparent that without "The Devil" Christianity would cease to exist as a bunch of religions.

So never-to-mind the conflicting versions of The Creator they have imaged into the world...if we look at what they claim about Satan, are they united in those claims?

One thing I notice about the attributes of Satan is that he appears to be only slightly less powerful than the God of the bible...and for that, also appears to be working in a sort of congruent manner with the GotB. Certainly the GotB finds Satan extremely useful in relation to dealing with spirits incarcerated into human form.

So Satan is something of an accuser. He is also portrayed as someone who likes to seed doubt into the individual, and confusion as consequence.

The mythology as generally believed by Christians is that Satan wanted to "become like God" rather than just be a god.

Obviously he cannot make his fellow eternal beings follow along with his crazy notions as they are equal to him in every way. Satan has this weird image of The Creator which he wants to bring into the spirt realm...a being on a throne worshiped as The Creator of all that is.

However, according to Christian mythology, this being actually does sit on a throne being worshipped by spirit beings [Angels etc] which seems to contradict the prior story, which leads to confusion.

The main problem with the belief in the doctrine of Satan is that if Satan wanted to be above that image, simply replacing The Creator with himself on the throne, won't achieve that.

So now we are looking at spirit beings worshiping an image of The Creator on a throne and Satan wanting to be an actual representation of the image being worship. He wanted to fill that position with a real being [him] rather than the one conjured up by Angels [eternal spiritual entities]

"NO!" Shout the Christians! The Creator was already the real being on The Throne! Satan wanted that position!

But that contradicts the idea that Satan wanted to be in a position even better [higher] than simply being the one on The Throne.

According to the general mythology, some of the fellow Angels got on board with Satan's idea while others [the greater number of] rejected the idea.

Then there is some almost nonsensical claims that somehow the greater number of Angels overpowered Satan and his followers, and The Creator on the throne then created the physical universe as a sure way to imprison eternal beings away from them having any more disruptive influence in the none material universe of the Angels [Angelic Realm] and their Creator.

Satan - thus incarcerated - then found a way in which he could disrupt the Angelic Realm by creating human beings.

"NO" shout the Christians. The Creator created human beings!

"Okay" I reply, "If that is the case, why did The Creator place spiritual entities into the human domain [physical universe]?"

The general reply is that it was 'the other way around' The Creator placed human beings into the same Universe [!!] in which The Creator had created to imprison Satan and his followers in.

So then one is entitled [and wise] to ask "Why" The Creator did this.

The obvious answer reverts back to the idea that the Human Form - being part of the physical universe was designed to house Satan and his followers, which then implies that we human beings are Satan and his followers.

So then we enter the Garden of Eden Story...the whole bible is a story about Satan and his Followers.

Is there any reason why the above isn't true?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #121

Post by Jemima »

[Replying to William in post #120]
Either way, I am okay with it.
Nuff said then.....
Always what I post is my opinion, according to my understanding.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #122

Post by DrNoGods »

[Replying to Jemima in post #122]
Nuff said then.....
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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #123

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:29 pm [Replying to Jemima in post #119]
This particular thread is for pointing out the numerous occasions where Christians invoke "The Devil" as a means of justifying their beliefs and/or judging others.
Since the Bible is my sole source of reference and it speaks of the existence of this entity, I will assume that he is real because the Bible’s entire narrative is about him and the effect of his rebellion on us here on this earth.
Indeed, as the thread topic is exactly about the Bible’s entire narrative being about Satan and the effect of his rebellion on us here on this earth, many Christians do not seem to want to acknowledge that as being the case....
Please explain why do you think so? I have read the entire Bible, and I think it is not about Satan.
William wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:29 pm
The devil is the reason for Jesus Christ....the Jewish nation....
Have you tried telling them that? Perhaps Jesus Christ isn't aware that he exists because of Satan...perhaps the Jewish nation isn't aware of that either...
Where do you get that idea? Bible tells about Jesus:

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him were all things created, in the heavens and on the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and for him.
Colossians 1:14-16

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #124

Post by William »

Jemima wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 9:24 pm [Replying to William in post #120]
Either way, I am okay with it.
Nuff said then.....
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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #125

Post by William »

[Replying to 1213 in post #123]
Indeed, as the thread topic is exactly about the Bible’s entire narrative being about Satan and the effect of his rebellion on us here on this earth, many Christians do not seem to want to acknowledge that as being the case....
Please explain why do you think so?
Because that is what the majority of Christians tell the world. I was quoting one such Christian. You may be one of those rarer variety which do not read that or agree there was a rebellion in Heaven and that this spilled over into Earth?
I have read the entire Bible, and I think it is not about Satan.
So what? Do you make it more about God? Essentially when theists began to split The Creator asunder and assign different Entities to those characteristics, all hell broke loose.

Why have the gods decided that Humans have to be involved in their shenanigan's? Why have Humans accepted that verdict?

I personally think that Humans made up those stories in order to 'explain' why they were in their predicament and Angels and Demons didn't exist prior to Humans inventing them.

The whole belief system has taken on a life of its own, which has direct impact upon the material world and its base reasons for why Humans are so stuffed up.

Truly the work of a devil, but hardly an invisible entity with [almost] god-like powers over the affairs of Humans. That is just a story Humans tell other Humans in order to gain control over their minds.
The devil is the reason for Jesus Christ....the Jewish nation....
Where do you get that idea? Bible tells about Jesus:
I was simply quoting Jemima's Witness. When I replied to what she wrote ["Have you tried telling them that? Perhaps Jesus Christ isn't aware that he exists because of Satan...perhaps the Jewish nation isn't aware of that either..."] I was doing so in a friendly manner of gentle mocking.

If you have a problem with Jemima's witness on the subject, you can take it up with her . I showed how easy it was to crumble her argument into dust...last I saw, she was heading out the door...

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #126

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:39 pm ...
I have read the entire Bible, and I think it is not about Satan.
So what? Do you make it more about God? ...
Why have the gods decided that Humans have to be involved in their shenanigan's? ...
Most of it seems to be about good and right, how people should live. And I believe it is for that people would know how to live well.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #127

Post by William »

1213 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:23 pm
William wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:39 pm ...
I have read the entire Bible, and I think it is not about Satan.
So what? Do you make it more about God? ...
Why have the gods decided that Humans have to be involved in their shenanigan's? ...
Most of it seems to be about good and right, how people should live. And I believe it is for that people would know how to live well.
That is not all you believe though, is it? Other Christians argue that Satan is the 'problem' with the world. The Bible is where we get the idea of Angels and Demons - Heavenly rebellion - which then set the stage for the creation of the material Universe.

Biblical Jesus himself is said to have mentioned the 'Devil' on more than one occasion. Then there are those moments when demons are speaking to him through apparently possessed individuals. There is even a story about him facing off with Satan out in the desert.

As unsettling as that might be for you [?] it is undeniable the Satan as imaged in today's world, is directly the result of Christian teaching being cast into this world.

Christians talk about the Devil all the time...maybe not quite as much as they talk about God, but Satan is obviously a central character in Christian Belief Systems.

The collective biblical stories are indeed 'about Satan' because none of the other characters would be involved if it were not for Satan existing in the Mythology.

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #128

Post by William »


The Jewish and Christian concepts of Satan are extreme opposites. Why does Christianity's Devil dominate the New Testament, while you hardly ever read of Satan in the Tenach (Old Testament)? Are these two versions of Satan even the same individual?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #129

Post by 1213 »

William wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:55 pm ...Other Christians argue that Satan is the 'problem' with the world..
How can he be a problem, if he can't do anything without God allowing it?
William wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:55 pm...
none of the other characters would be involved if it were not for Satan existing in the Mythology.
Why God and Jesus could not be involved, if Satan would not exist?

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Re: The Doctrine of Satan

Post #130

Post by William »

[Replying to 1213 in post #129]
None of the other characters would be involved if it were not for Satan existing in the Mythology.
Why God and Jesus could not be involved, if Satan would not exist?
I think part of the overall problem with those who practice their particular form of Christianity, is that they are unable to distinguish between what is said and what is heard from what is said.

This leads to the type of response questioning something which was not even said. Straw.

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