The Not So Nice Jesus

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Miles
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The Not So Nice Jesus

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Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword (also translated as "trouble," "conflict," "division," and "war"). 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’


So what's going on with Jesus here, coming to bring all this misery upon the world? Got fed up with The Love of Christ assignment perhaps?



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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

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Miles wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:56 pm .


Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword (also translated as "trouble," "conflict," "division," and "war"). 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’


So what's going on with Jesus here, coming to bring all this misery upon the world? Got fed up with The Love of Christ assignment perhaps?



.
Last time I heard even atheists support just war theory.

It is gross ignorance to assume that conflict is always wrong. Often it is absolutely necessary and unavoidable. Even secular psychologists acknowledge this.

If this was recognized thousands of years ago, then that means our ancestors were smart. If we disagree with them, that can only mean we are not as smart as they were, on this issue.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough." - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

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Dimmesdale wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:13 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:56 pm .


Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword (also translated as "trouble," "conflict," "division," and "war"). 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’
So what's going on with Jesus here, coming to bring all this misery upon the world? Got fed up with The Love of Christ assignment perhaps?
Last time I heard even atheists support just war theory.
Setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies, is not war.

It is gross ignorance to assume that conflict is always wrong. Often it is absolutely necessary and unavoidable.
On a case by case basis perhaps, but this is an unqualified matter of setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies.


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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

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Dimmesdale wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:13 pm It is gross ignorance to assume that conflict is always wrong. Often it is absolutely necessary and unavoidable. Even secular psychologists acknowledge this.
The OP includes nothing to suggest conflict is always wrong. It asks about this specific case from Jesus. A general assertion concerning conflict and who may or may not recognize something about it does nothing to address this specific case.


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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

Post #14

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Miles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:12 pm Setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies, is not war.
Obviously you know nothing of fratricidal conflicts. How do you know Jesus wasn't talking about such?
Miles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:12 pmOn a case by case basis perhaps, but this is an unqualified matter of setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies.
Well, I don't know in what context Jesus meant it. How do you know this is "unqualified?" In what sense? I don't think you know much about it - or most anyone. For that matter Jesus wasn't clear. I know however that sometimes you need to kill members of your own family. Yep, it can come to that, at times. Life is hard.
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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

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Dimmesdale wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:25 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:12 pm Setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies, is not war.
Obviously you know nothing of fratricidal conflicts.
Well I know they're not war.

How do you know Jesus wasn't talking about such?
Duh! How about the fact fact that he says: "I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies." What he says has to count for something doesn't it? Of course it does.

Miles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:12 pmOn a case by case basis perhaps, but this is an unqualified matter of setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies.
Well, I don't know in what context Jesus meant it. How do you know this is "unqualified?"
Because it isn't qualified. You do understand what qualified and unqualified statements are in such contexts, don't you?
In what sense?
unqualified adjective
un·​qual·​i·​fied | \ ˌən-ˈkwä-lə-ˌfīd

2 : not modified or restricted by reservations : complete
(Source: Merriam Webster Dictionary)


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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

Post #16

Post by Dimmesdale »

Miles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:01 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:25 pm
Miles wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:12 pm Setting a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; Even members of your own family will be your enemies, is not war.
Obviously you know nothing of fratricidal conflicts.
Well I know they're not war.
They can reach that magnitude. Just like, if half my family became convinced slavery should be made legal, or that Trump should be enthroned as God Emperor. The way our loyalties might play out.... may very well lead to bloodshed on a mass scale. I would have to go against them.

If Jesus represents truth, and goodness over evil and falsehood, then it makes sense that he would pit us against family members who have turned evil, at least on various issues.....

Right over wrong is unqualified, but its necessarily seen through the lens of particular issues.
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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

Post #17

Post by Tcg »

Dimmesdale wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:35 pm
If Jesus represents truth, and goodness over evil and falsehood, then it makes sense that he would pit us against family members who have turned evil, at least on various issues.....
Nice try, but the scripture presented in the OP says nothing about anyone turning evil. Of course this wouldn't be the only case of needing to add to a story presented in the bible in order to hold onto the idea that the Jesus presented in the bible is some sort of saint. He wasn't.


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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

Post #18

Post by Dimmesdale »

Tcg wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:43 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:35 pm
If Jesus represents truth, and goodness over evil and falsehood, then it makes sense that he would pit us against family members who have turned evil, at least on various issues.....
Nice try, but the scripture presented in the OP says nothing about anyone turning evil. Of course this wouldn't be the only case of needing to add to a story presented in the bible in order to hold onto the idea that the Jesus presented in the bible is some sort of saint. He wasn't.


Tcg
I'm not aware of the full context of the scripture, nor am I a Christian with any stake here. But I know that Christianity teaches all men have "fallen short of the glory of God" have become "useless", etc. To me this speaks to our human predicament. We don't have to turn evil. We already are or, are so mired in evil, we can't tell our left hand from our right, so to speak.

When it comes to who we are going to support, Christ or Caesar, well, that just evinces what was in the heart all along. We all have death coming in a sense. None of us can play innocence, knowing who we are and what world we have made for ourselves. Depending on what kind of bed we make, we're going to have to sleep in it.
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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

Post #19

Post by Checkpoint »

Dimmesdale wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 1:46 pm
Tcg wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:43 pm
Dimmesdale wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:35 pm
If Jesus represents truth, and goodness over evil and falsehood, then it makes sense that he would pit us against family members who have turned evil, at least on various issues.....
Nice try, but the scripture presented in the OP says nothing about anyone turning evil. Of course this wouldn't be the only case of needing to add to a story presented in the bible in order to hold onto the idea that the Jesus presented in the bible is some sort of saint. He wasn't.


Tcg
I'm not aware of the full context of the scripture, nor am I a Christian with any stake here. But I know that Christianity teaches all men have "fallen short of the glory of God" have become "useless", etc. To me this speaks to our human predicament. We don't have to turn evil. We already are or, are so mired in evil, we can't tell our left hand from our right, so to speak.

When it comes to who we are going to support, Christ or Caesar, well, that just evinces what was in the heart all along. We all have death coming in a sense. None of us can play innocence, knowing who we are and what world we have made for ourselves. Depending on what kind of bed we make, we're going to have to sleep in it.
Is that in a specific context? If so, what do you have in mind?

If not, is it a general statement of what is?

Perhaps similar to, "whatever someone sows, that shall they reap"?

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Re: The Not So Nice Jesus

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Miles wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:56 pm .


Matthew 10:34-36
34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword (also translated as "trouble," "conflict," "division," and "war"). 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’


So what's going on with Jesus here, coming to bring all this misery upon the world? Got fed up with The Love of Christ assignment perhaps?



.
There is no mystery here, or at least there shouldn't be. The key problem is the word 'earth' has is often misconstrued to mean 'world' rather than 'land [of Israel]'.

The Lord came to bring peace in his kingdom, the Kingdom of God, but that involved bringing the sword of war and desolation to 'the sons of the kingdom' who will be 'thrown into outer darkness' (Mat. 8:12) while many 'come from the East and the West' i.e. from outside Israel, to sit down with the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in 'the kingdom of heaven' (Mat. 8:11) which is the kingdom of God.

This kingdom feast with the patriarchs is the wedding feast of Is. 25:6-8, to which Israel was invited, and at which Israel would be resurrected in a new body, on Zion:

6 On this mountain [i.e. Zion] the Lord of hosts will make for all peoples
a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine,
of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.
7 And he will swallow up on this mountain
the covering that is cast over all peoples,
the veil that is spread over all nations.
8 He will swallow up death for ever;
and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces,
and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth,
for the Lord has spoken.

Yet, Israel, the old Israel, would miss out on this resurrection wedding feast, as the Lord said in Mat. 8:10-12, as Isaiah said:
11 But you who forsake the Lord,
who forget my holy mountain,
who set a table for Fortune
and fill cups of mixed wine for Destiny,
12 I will destine you to the sword,
and all of you shall bow down to the slaughter,
because, when I called, you did not answer;
when I spoke, you did not listen,
but you did what was evil in my eyes
and chose what I did not delight in.”
13 Therefore thus says the Lord God:
“Behold, my servants shall eat,
but you shall be hungry;
behold, my servants shall drink,
but you shall be thirsty;
behold, my servants shall rejoice,
but you shall be put to shame;
14 behold, my servants shall sing for gladness of heart,
but you shall cry out for pain of heart
and shall wail for breaking of spirit.
15 You shall leave your name to my chosen for a curse,
and the Lord God will put you to death,
but his servants he will call by another name. (Is. 65:11-15)

Thus, the sword that the Lord brings upon the land of Israel is to put Israel, the old Israel that rejected him, to death, to bring in his kingdom. This is the sword that kills the dragon, the ancient serpent:
In that day the Lord with his hard and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will slay the dragon that is in the sea. (Is. 27:1)

The context of Is. 27:1 is:
1. The judgement upon the land of Israel, for the human blood shed upon the land of Israel, by Israel, as Israel's new birth:
13 O Lord our God,
other lords besides you have ruled over us,
but your name alone we bring to remembrance.
14 They are dead, they will not live;
they are shades, they will not arise;
to that end you have visited them with destruction
and wiped out all remembrance of them.
15 But you have increased the nation, O Lord,
you have increased the nation; you are glorified;
you have enlarged all the borders of the land.
16 O Lord, in distress they sought you;
they poured out a whispered prayer
when your discipline was upon them.
17 Like a pregnant woman
who writhes and cries out in her pangs
when she is near to giving birth,
so were we because of you, O Lord;
18 we were pregnant, we writhed,
but we have given birth to wind.
We have accomplished no deliverance in the earth,
and the inhabitants of the world have not fallen.
19 Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise.
You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!
For your dew is a dew of light,
and the earth will give birth to the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers,
and shut your doors behind you;
hide yourselves for a little while
until the fury has passed by.
21 For behold, the Lord is coming out from his place
to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity,
and the earth will disclose the blood shed on it,
and will no more cover its slain. (Is. 26:13-21)

2. The restoration of Israel as YHWH's vineyard, when Israel would fill the world with fruit, and YHWH would atone for Israel's guilt by destroying the temple and destroying Jerusalem (again), when YHWH would have no compassion upon Israel, and when Israel would be harvested and the gentiles would come in to Jerusalem:
2 In that day,
“A pleasant vineyard, sing of it!
3 I, the Lord, am its keeper;
every moment I water it.
Lest anyone punish it,
I keep it night and day;
4 I have no wrath.
Would that I had thorns and briers to battle!
I would march against them,
I would burn them up together.
5 Or let them lay hold of my protection,
let them make peace with me,
let them make peace with me.”
6 In days to come Jacob shall take root,
Israel shall blossom and put forth shoots
and fill the whole world with fruit.
7 Has he struck them as he struck those who struck them?
Or have they been slain as their slayers were slain?
8 Measure by measure, by exile you contended with them;
he removed them with his fierce breath in the day of the east wind.
9 Therefore by this the guilt of Jacob will be atoned for,
and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin:
when he makes all the stones of the altars
like chalk-stones crushed to pieces,
no Asherim or incense altars will remain standing.
10 For the fortified city is solitary,
a habitation deserted and forsaken, like the wilderness;
there the calf grazes;
there it lies down and strips its branches.
11 When its boughs are dry, they are broken;
women come and make a fire of them.
For this is a people without discernment;
therefore he who made them will not have compassion on them;
he who formed them will show them no favour.

12 In that day from the river Euphrates to the Brook of Egypt the Lord will thresh out the grain, and you will be gleaned one by one, O people of Israel. 13 And in that day a great trumpet will be blown, and those who were lost in the land of Assyria and those who were driven out to the land of Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain at Jerusalem. (Is. 27:2-13).

In summary, Israel would be repaid for shedding the blood of God's servants, and her sin would be ended, and she would be both destroyed and born again, killed and raised to life, ejected yet filling the world with fruit, harvested and regathered at the end of the age, the age of the old Israel, the old kingdom.

We can see that Israel is the dragon, the ancient serpent, killed by the sword of YHWH, when he would draw 'his hard and great and strong sword.'

The sword that kills the dragon is the sword of war, which is falls upon Israel in her last days:
25 Your men shall fall by the sword
and your mighty men in battle. (Is. 3:25)

This sword would come upon Israel the Lord said would come in the following context:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, 22 for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written. 23 Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24)

Everyone agrees that Luke 21:20-24 applies to the rebellion and tribulation and desolation of Jerusalem from A.D. 66-70. Given that the Lord quotes Is. 3:25, it is inescapable that the Lord applies the judgement of Is. 2-4 to A.D. 66-70. The Lord applies also this prophecy against Jerusalem of his generation as he is lead out to be killed:
27 And there followed him a great multitude of the people and of women who were mourning and lamenting for him. 28 But turning to them Jesus said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. 29 For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ 30 Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us’, and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ 31 For if they do these things when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?” (Luke 23:27-31).

This is also a quote from Is. 27:11, which predicts the women making fire out of the dry wood, when 'he who made them will not have compassion on them; he who formed them will show them no favour.'

The references to hiding in the caves is also from Is. 2-4, see Is. 2:6-21.

The sword that comes to the land of Israel, that the Lord referred to in Mat. 10 is the sword of war, that comes upon divided Israel. As you quoted:
'For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 Even members of your own family will be your enemies.’

Divided Israel is a feature, in particular, of the book of Daniel. Divided Israel in Daniel suffers the judgement and is 'completely shattered' (Dan. 12:7) as a result. Let's examine this motif of division before destruction in Daniel.

The statute has a divided bottom half in Dan. 2, with the two legs, and the iron and clay, that do not mix or adhere: 'they will not hold together, just as iron does not mix with clay' (Dan. 2:43). This divided kingdom is destroyed by the Kingdom of God, as the rock. The final kingdom can be identified by counting the kingdoms through history from Babylon, the first, Medo-Persia, the second, Greece, the third, to Israel, the fourth. The Greek kingdom is pushed out of Israel, and from then Israel became independent for nearly 100 years, and maintained her identity even as she later became a vassal kingdom of Rome.

John the Baptist applied this prophecy against Israel of his generation, as the destruction of the iron and the clay and clears the threshing floor and blows away the chaff against Israel of his day:
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bear fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father’, for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. 10 Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees. Every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.” (Mat. 3:7-12)

This is an allusion to Dan. 2:35
Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold, all together were broken in pieces, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, so that not a trace of them could be found. But the stone that struck the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

Likewise, the Lord applied the prophecy of the wind against the house of those who rejected him, i.e. the Second Temple:
26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.” (Mat. 7:26-27)

This is in contrast to the Israel that builds its new house upon the Rock, i.e. the Kingdom of God from Dan. 2
24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.

Divided Israel is, therefore, the one destroyed by the judgement against the feet of iron and clay, destroyed by the rock and the wind. The house that survives and prospers is the new house, built on the rock.

The Lord again applies the prophecy of the rock that destroys against Israel of his day:
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone that the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
this was the Lord's doing,
and it is marvellous in our eyes’?

43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. 44 And the one who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; and when it falls on anyone, it will crush him.”

45 When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them. (Mat. 21:42-45)

In this context, Israel is being repaid for shedding the blood of God's servants the prophets, which is the same motif we saw in Is. 26 which we quoted above at length. The Lord said this would happen in the First Century generation, at the fall of the Second Temple:
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Thus you witness against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town, 35 so that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah,[f] whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar. 36 Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. (Mat. 23:29-38)

Going back to divided Israel in Daniel being destroyed.

In Dan. 7 we have the four beasts, the same as the four kingdoms from Dan. 2. The fourth kingdom suffers a rebellion when its little horn (not to be confused with the little horn of Dan. 8, which is Greek), and the fourth beast is destroyed along with it, when the kingdom of God comes. The Lord applied this to his own coming against Israel in the First Century generation in Mat. 10:23; 16:27-28; 24:27-30, 37-39, 44; 26:64.

In Dan. 9 we have the 70 sevens, tracking Israel's return from the exile and her destruction and redemption. For seven sevens, the temple is rebuilt as the Second Temple, Israel's political system and leadership is restored with the 'anointed one' i.e. the legitimate ruler or government, which is the first of many to come, and the rebuilding of Jerusalem. Then, for 62 sevens, there is a time of trouble under the anointed one (and his successors), with the Second Temple functioning and sacrifices being offered in it, and the city of Jerusalem is not destroyed again. Then, in the 70th seven, after the 62 sevens, that all changes: an anointed one (i.e. the last legitimate ruler of the restored Israel after the exile) is overthrown by a rebel or a rebellion, the rebel government takes over as a prince that is not anointed, i.e. a usurper, and the usurper precipitates the war to the end, sets up (or is) the abomination of desolation, desolation is decreed, the Second Temple is destroyed, Jerusalem is desolated, and the sacrifices are stopped. This usurper and this rebel government are destroyed along with his kingdom and Israel. Yet, through this destruction everlasting righteousness, i.e. the kingdom of God, comes, and Israel's sin is filled up to the measure and ends.

The destruction of the Second Temple and the usurper's government and Israel along with it are described as being by a flood of men of war (Dan. 9:26). This is the Second Flood of Gen. 9:5-6. As the first flood destroyed the murderers, for shedding human blood, so the second flood would destroy the murderers for shedding human blood, not by a flood of water but by a flood of men. This is the flood that Dan. 9:26 refers to. This same Second Flood is referred to by the Lord in Mat. 7:24-27, and it destroyed the 'house' of the people who rejected the gospel, just as the flood destroys the Second Temple in Dan. 9:26-27. It is the same flood as is absorbed not by the woman but by the land [of Israel] in Rev. 12. But the point is that it is divided and deluded Israel that suffers the rebellion and judgement of war and desolation in Dan. 9.

Dan. 11 also features divided Israel, at and after the time of Antiochus Epiphanes:
32 He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action. 33 And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder. 34 When they stumble, they shall receive a little help. And many shall join themselves to them with flattery, 35 and some of the wise shall stumble, so that they may be refined, purified, and made white, until the time of the end, for it still awaits the appointed time. (Dan. 11:32-35)

Epiphanes is resisted by some in Israel and departs. But Israel is then divided between the wise and the foolish, and the wise do not have much political influence, and they are troubled and stumble. This is the continuation of the 62 sevens, the time of trouble. This is a long period of time after Epiphanes, they have to wait a long time until the appointed time. At the appointed time, the figure of 'the king' who is not 'the king of the north' and who is not 'the king of the south' but rather the king from within Israel itself, that arises as the usurper and rebel, 'the king shall do as he wills' (Dan. 11:36f). It is this king's antics that end the 62 sevens and feature in the 70th seven.

The 70th seven is the time of the great tribulation on Israel, Dan. 12:1, and the time of a great rebellion when 'some [awake] to shame and everlasting contempt' Dan. 12:2. It is at this time that the wise truly have ascendancy: 'And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.' Dan. 12:3. Yet this ascendancy is not to prevent the great tribulation or the rebellion, and it does not prevent 'the shattering of the power of the holy people' Dan. 12:7. It does not stop the abomination of desolation, Dan. 12:11. Divided Israel is destroyed, along with her 'house.' This is the 'house' of Satan, as the Lord said:

25 Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29 Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30 Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Mat. 12:25-32)

The house divided against itself was the house of Israel, which was the house of Satan. Israel would be divided and fall. The kingdom of God came upon Israel, and she was not forgiven in that age or the age to come, as the prophetic structure is for Israel to be divided and fall into utter ruin. The Lord would restrain Satan for the time, the time of trouble, and plunder his house. Then the strong man would be unbound (cf. Rev. 20), and would rise like a beast out of the abyss (cf. Rev. 11) and go crazy and lead a rebellion that would bring that utter ruin (cf. Rev. 12-13). Yet, in and through that, the Kingdom of God would come: Israel would be raised to life and would be re-born, as a new body, the immortal body, against which the gates of Hades would not withstand.

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