The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

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William
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The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #1

Post by William »

Lately some of us have been arguing from three differing positions is which the bible can be used to defend all three. All three appear to agree that each individual has a "Soul" although there may be disagreement on what the exact function of a "Soul" is.

[1] A "Person" is "Spirit" and temporarily exists as a human being until the body dies then that "Person" enters an afterlife and is judged by "God" and is condemned or saved. Those saved go to "heaven" and those condemned go to "Hell" - or in some variances on this, are "exterminated".

[2] A "Person" a "Human being" and when the human being dies, that is the end of that person unless "God" judges them as "saved" in which case that person is resurrected and given a new body which will last forever more.

[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.

Often any different position which opposes another might logically mean that they both cannot be correct, assuming one or the other is true.

Both [1]&[2] fall into this category as they cannot both be true. [1]&[2] also both agree that [3] is false.

However, [3] Can be true without making the other two false.

And [3] - just as with [1]&[2] can be backed by the bible, depending on what parts of the bible once uses to do so.

The bible is interpreted throughout, based upon which position [1][2] or [3] is being used to interpret it through [the filter].

If [1]&[2] oppose each other but can still be "proven" by using the bible, then this makes the bible something of a contradiction.

But if [3] - although different from [1]&[2] does not oppose either [1]&[2] and can still be "proven" by using the bible just like [1]&[2], then [3] takes away the contradictory aspect of the bible which [1]&[2] create by being in opposition.

Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #2

Post by Tcg »

William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:16 pm Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?
Which biblical text or texts are you referring to when you state "the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?" It's rather difficult to answer a question that fails to include the text or texts it presumably references.


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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #3

Post by William »

Tcg wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:24 pm
William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:16 pm Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?
Which biblical text or texts are you referring to when you state "the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?" It's rather difficult to answer a question that fails to include the text or texts it presumably references.


Tcg
Well since I stated that "lately some of us have been arguing from three differing positions is which the bible can be used to defend all three." those arguments have been accompanied with various biblical quotes, which I am sure will be used in this thread by any who wish to participate.

Generally Christianity is a religion based upon belief in Afterlife [The Next Phase] so therein there are plenty of verses to do with the subject, as I am sure that you should be aware Tcg.

Therefore there was no particular reason to include any of the particular verses as we should all know that the bible has these, and that they are used in relation to arguing all the positions mentioned in the OP [1]&[2]&[3]

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #4

Post by William »

My understanding is that [3] is the true position to hold, that being;

"[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase."

The first biblical verse I present as evidence is Genesis 1~27

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

and Genesis 2~7

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

It is my understanding that the "Image of God" and the "Breath of God" are the same thing - they represent the "Spirit of God" and that "Man" is the human form in which the Spirit of God was placed into.

Therefore the human form came alive...['became a living soul']

In that, as I understand it, everyone born "Human" is an aspect of Creator Consciousness, and as such, has, is and will always exist and the human instrument [body] is that which we Eternal Spirits are presently and temporarily experiencing, and are mistakenly taught that we are the form/flesh/man/body...and so we tend to self identify as 'man' [the form].

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #5

Post by Tcg »

William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:09 pm [
Therefore there was no particular reason to include any of the particular verses as we should all know that the bible has these, and that they are used in relation to arguing all the positions mentioned in the OP [1]&[2]&[3]
Yes, William, the bible has many verses. Which can be used to support any of the positions mentioned in the OP [1]&[2]&[3] remains to be seen.


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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #6

Post by William »

Tcg wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:48 am
William wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:09 pm [
Therefore there was no particular reason to include any of the particular verses as we should all know that the bible has these, and that they are used in relation to arguing all the positions mentioned in the OP [1]&[2]&[3]
Yes, William, the bible has many verses. Which can be used to support any of the positions mentioned in the OP [1]&[2]&[3] remains to be seen.


Tcg
Yes Tcg. Indeed, it has been seen because Christians are doing so all of the time [here on this message board] and we know that there are the two major camps of belief regarding what a "Person" is and "what happens to the "Person" re the next phase [afterlife].
Of the two camps of belief [1] appears to be the most popular [2] appears to be a more recent phenomenon, possibly because it was largely suppressed by the supporters of [1] but [2] has existed as a belief long before Christianity came into being, and is growing in popularity thanks to organizations such as Jehovah Witnesses and the growing popularity among non-theists in emergence theory over the same period of time,

[3] is probably the oldest of them, but also is the most suppressed by believers in [1]&[2].

[1] is shared by many religions [2] is aligned with emergence theory beliefs [3] mostly is hidden knowledge - not because it has to be but simply because [1]&[2] are predominantly beliefs which have to exclude [3] in order to remain beliefs - so the beliefs excluding [3] is what keeps [3] hidden.

From The Catholic Telegraph:
LIFE AFTER DEATH?
When did the belief in heaven and hell originate among Christians? I have heard that Jewish believers, some early Christians, and even possibly Jesus did not believe in an afterlife.

Most Christians would probably be surprised to know of the diversity of Judeo-Christian beliefs about the world to come. The rather simplistic view that souls entered either an eternal heaven or an eternal hell was not uniformly held in Jesus’ time....
...read more here

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #7

Post by William »

Image

There is a position "somewhere in between" where both [1]&[2] superimpose - a kind of agnostic position in that the believers think both might be correct, but cannot identify why, so remain 'on the fence'.

In that, according to [3] such will experience that which the position influences, come the Next Phase...the position and accompanying beliefs and associated attitudes will create for these, mixtures of [1]&[2] as their dominant experience. Wish and Wash.

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #8

Post by tam »

Peace to you,

Often any different position which opposes another might logically mean that they both cannot be correct, assuming one or the other is true.
Sure.
Both [1]&[2] fall into this category as they cannot both be true.
There is some overlap, but for the sake of argument, sure... if [1] and [2] contradict, both cannot be correct.
[1]&[2] also both agree that [3] is false.
Yes.
However, [3] Can be true without making the other two false.
I do not think this is correct. But I will leave it alone for the sake of argument...

And [3] - just as with [1]&[2] can be backed by the bible, depending on what parts of the bible once uses to do so.
Anything in the world can be backed by the bible, depending upon what one uses or ignores from the bible. So I'm not sure that this means anything at all.


I am going to point out that [3] is not backed by the bible though. Nothing in the bible states that we create our own afterlife (knowing or unknowing). I do not think you have ever provided something from that book to support this statement. You have provided something from that book to support the fact that Christ had more things to teach. But that is not the same thing as providing something from the bible to support the statement that we create (knowingly or unknowingly) our own afterlife.

**

It also does not make sense that you say Christ taught 'hell' - so that according to you, some will inevitably create 'hells' as their afterlife experience - and then the Creator provides much needed 'soul retrievers' to rescue those poor people from an 'afterlife experience' that they would never have had if it had never been taught in the first place.


Never mind that Christ taught none of this, William... the system you are describing makes no sense at all. You are blaming God and His Son for those horrendous 'self-created' experiences, because they could never have been 'self-created' if they had never been put into the individual's mind to begin with.

The bible is interpreted throughout, based upon which position [1][2] or [3] is being used to interpret it through [the filter].
I don't think you have established this. That assumes a person has a preset belief by which they interpret the rest of the bible, rather than that they came to their understanding by some other means.

(I don't interpret the bible based upon a position (1, 2, or 3). I should not be interpreting to begin with (as I said to someone else, that would be hit and miss at best), but I do hold everything up to Christ, to His word and His teachings at the very least. I leave interpretation to Christ, leave Him to open the scriptures so that I can see what is true and what was meant. But that is not the debate question, so I put it there just for clarity.)
If [1]&[2] oppose each other but can still be "proven" by using the bible, then this makes the bible something of a contradiction.
If that were true, then it could mean that.
But if [3] - although different from [1]&[2] does not oppose either [1]&[2] and can still be "proven" by using the bible just like [1]&[2], then [3] takes away the contradictory aspect of the bible which [1]&[2] create by being in opposition.
I think [3] does oppose [1] and [2]. Especially if you were to flesh [1] and [2] out, where neither [1] or [2] accept that the resurrection (and all that comes with it) are 'self-created'.
Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?
No.

Even if [3] did not contradict [1] and [2], that would not make [3] biblical. If [3] is not supported by the bible (see above), then it cannot be the best position to assume on the overall biblical script. Though even if it were the best position, that might just mean it is the best of three false positions. And so what would that matter?



Peace again.

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #9

Post by myth-one.com »


Regarding the afterlife:


All mankind is like the first man Adam in that all die:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Likewise, all mankind who ever died will be resurrected back to life:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

However, all will not be resurrected at the same time. There will be an order to the resurrections.

Jesus Christ will be resurrected first, and that has already occurred.

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which those "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. The resurrection for all deceased Christians will occur at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming."

Christians who are alive at the Second Coming will be born again as spirits and meet them in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

These born again spiritual bodied believers will then spend the thousand year Millennium with Christ:

...and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4)

After the Millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. (Revelation 20:5)

After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (all dead nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection!

So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names. What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will be preached the good news of the gospel and be allowed to accept or reject Jesus at that time:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Those accepting Jesus will be born again as spirits into the Kingdom of God at that time.

Those choosing death will be cast into the lake of fire and instantly perish for all eternity -- never to live again.

The age and purpose of man will then be over as there will be no more mankind.

Those of mankind who chose everlasting life over everlasting death will replace the earthly angels who rebelled.

They will rule the earth under their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for ever.

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Re: The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife

Post #10

Post by JehovahsWitness »

1]A "Person" is "Spirit...

#1 A PERSON Is an intelligent individual with free will.

#2 Human is a person with a physical flesh and blood body.
GENESIS 2:7

And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person.
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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