John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Roman Yuriel
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John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #1

Post by Roman Yuriel »

John 3:16. Probably the most popular scripture in the Bible.

With a first read of the verse having not read the stories prior? One would be made to believe that Christ was talking about All People when he said God so loved the World.

But when you read the stories prior (the old testament)? And read the whole chapter itself in it's context? It's hard to see how Christ was actually talking about the world as in all people.

It is my belief that Christ did not die for all people, ye rather. He died for the bloodline or aka the children of the house of Israel. I'm going to attempt to prove this.

Firstly. What is going on in the chapter? Let's paint a picture.

Christ is relaxing in his home for the time being, it's night time. A man by the name of Nicodemus comes to him by night against orders from his clique (scribes saducees and pharisees) who were not feeling what Christ was doing at the time to say the least. But curious? Nick wanted to see for him self what is the deal.

Nicodemus is a Jew. From the kingdom of Judah. (Which consisted of only Judah, Benjamin and Levi tribes of the nation of Israel. )

Truth: The term Jew only represented 3 tribes of the 12 tribes of Israel. It only represented a section of the Israelites. It is a nickname for JUDAH
(JEW-DAH) which is the tribe Christ descendant from in the flesh.

There's a huge misunderstanding that Jew is just another name for an Israelite. All tribes are jews. That couldn't be further from the truth.

The other section of Israelites (northern kingdom) which consisted of 9 tribes (or 10) but technically 9. If people know their bibles and they should if they're trying to debate doctrine of Christianity. Or prove their doctrine. One would know the history in Israel of a great split that divided the family of Israel into 2 nations and 2 kingdoms.

Northern and southern kingdom of Israel. Judah and Ephraim or Judah and Israel.. were their aliases at this time.

This info is found in the book of Hosea 1 which apostle Paul references in ROMANS 9 towards the end.

In a nutshell. You can read the chapter yourself. God would cut of the kingdom of Israel due to too much idolatry and forsaking his covenant he made with them. Resulting in him setting his face against them and being their enemy. He would cut Israel off (northern kingdom) and declare them no more his people.

Only a portion.... See some ignorantly believe God cut off all Israel and forsook all israel. No. He forsook a SECTION (granted a greater section) majority of the nation. But in Hosea 1 he cut off only the kingdom of Israel (Ephraim)) he did NOT cut off the kingdom of Judah. He declared he would remain with Judah and SAVE Judah but not by war. (Obviously referring to Christ) as God said I will raise up the tents of Judah FIRST.

This is why Christ only dealt with Jews while he was alive. And commanded to not go into the way of the gentiles. (Even Israelite gentiles)

Yes. Israelite gentiles. Come the time of Christ they had been cut off and had no God for centuries. While God only remained with Judah (The Jews)
The rest of Israel fell away and lost their name and heritage and had to go by the names of all the other nations where they dwelled or were born.

When God said "ye are not my people and I am not your God" those israelites at that day became SPIRUTUALLY Gentiles. Though Israel in the flesh? They were not in the covenant anymore.

Que Christ....

In Hosea 1 God had a plan after cutting off Israel he said that in the end after Judah was saved. The rest that was called not my people (gentiled Israelites) would then be called the sons of the living God. (Meaning God would allow them to be grafted back in in the new covenant once they accepted Christ)

Ok. So now Nicodemus and Christ. John 3:16.

These are 2 Jews who are a conversing and remeniscing about past events that happened to THEIR ancestors. Prior to John 3:16 Christ references a situation between God, Moses and Israel in the desert after the Great Exodus from Egypt. You can read the story in the book of numbers. Of them complaining and God sending poisonous snakes to attack them until they repented. In which God told Moses to make a brass serpent that whoso ever looked at it would be healed of their poison and sickness.

The ONLY people in the wilderness were ISRAELITES. So that "whoso ever" clearly was referencing the group of the Israelites "whoso ever" of Israel.

Christ told Nicodemus though that he would be raised up the same way for the people. Why?

Because God so loved the "world" that he gave his only son to die for THEIR sins. That "whoso ever" of that world would not die but receive eternal life.
πŸ€”πŸ€”πŸ€”

Hmmmm. Ok it's time to play detective now. Let's break down the words in the verse carefully.

Starting with "For God so LOVED".

IN ALL the Bible the ONLY people God declared his "love" for was the house of Israel, they who he lead of Egypt to establish their own kingdom.

If God loved "all people" why did he have Israel ransack many nations in route to power and dominance? Why would God say anyone who messs with Israel he will destroy? That sounds exactly like favoritism. He destroyed Egypt nation for israels sake. For example.

Now let's examine what his "love" is. His love is his OATH is his PROMISE.

Dueteronomy 7:6-8 declares the nation of Israel is beloved by God above all people on the face of the earth. He said however he did not set his LOVE on Israel because of their number or size . For they were the minority. But because he swore an OATH to the father's of the Israelites. That he brought Israel out of Egypt.

God's love is his Oath (promise) and his choice. He chose Israel for his reasons and promised them an eternal promise.

Israel were the only nation God declared he loved. He did not love (choose and promise ) all people. Only the bloodline of Israel.

Amos 3. God Declares that Israel is the ONLY FAMILY that he KNOWS (deals with) therefore ISRAEL will be punished for THEIR sins.

AMOS 3:1-2

"Hear this word that the LORD has spoken against you, O children (descendants) of ISRAEL against the whole family (bloodline) which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You ONLY have I known (chosen) of all the families (bloodlines) of the earth: therefore I will punish you (Israelites) for all your iniquities (sins)."

God would punish Israel but his plan was to redeem Israel in the end.

"For God so "loved"(chose and promised) the "world" (the nation of Israel) that whoever (of the family) might not perrish but have eternal life.

Biblical proof that John 3:16 is about Israel. Christ was referencing this chapter from the old testament in the book of Isaiah.

ISAIAH 45:15-17

"Verily thou art a God that hides thyself, O God of ISRAEL, the Saviour. They shall be ashamed, and also confounded (confused), all of them: They shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

But ISRAEL shall be SAVED in the LORD with an EVERLASTING SALVATION (everlasting life): Ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end."

See here God refers to the nation of Israel as a WORLD. A world without an end. He shall bring an everlasting salvation to. God was referred to as the GOD OF ISRAEL (not all people)....

So CLEARLY now in context? We get a better understanding of what Christ was saying. He was referring to the "world" of the house of Israel.

And one cannot spiritualize Israel neither based off Romans 9. Because Paul states it's ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. Not the "spirit"

ROMANS 9:1-6

"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my KINSMEN according to the FLESH (bloodline): Who are ISRAELITES; To whom pertains (belongs to) the adoption (the grafting in/gentiled Israelites/Ezekiel 37), "and the glory, (the kingdom of God) and the covenants (old & new), and the giving of the law (commandment enforcers), and the service of God (blessings & protection), and the promises (eternal kingdom); whose are the fathers (ancestors), and of whom as concerning the FLESH (bloodline) Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"

See a regular gentile cannot become spiritually an Israelite. But Israelites at one point spiritually became "gentiles". And those israelites and even any Jew who does not accept CHRIST and the new covenant? Are NOT considered israelites to God. But they have to be an Israelite in the flesh first to even have that opportunity. Because the opportunity always was for the israelites in the first place.

So in conclusion? I know this will be heavily debated or attempted to be heavily debated. And I'm sure someone will bring up "go ye and teach all nations" which was referring to fishing out those gentiled Israelites from among all nations as they dwelled among all nations barring the names of all nations. As a result of being discontinued from the heritage of Israel and the old covenant.

But truth is Christ only died for the house of Israel.

MATTHEW 15:24-26

"But he answered and said, I am not sent (by God) but (ONLY) unto the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.

Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not good to take the children's (Israel's) bread, and to cast it to dogs (gentiles)."

And yes he wound up blessing that woman of Canaan anyways because she actually was an Israelite from the northern kingdom. She bore the name of Canaan because her section of the israelite family were the ones cut off from the old covenant. But she had faith though and knew of the coming of the messiah and prophecy and Christ blessed her because of her faith. Even though his mission at the time was to only establish the Jews at that moment.

It wasn't until after he passed and went on that he would send the Jews to go and find the rest of Israel and bring them to the father with the new covenant.

The Samaritan woman was an Israelite from the northern kingdom..Her tribe Ephraim they inhabited the capital of northern Israel which was the city of Samaria that Jacob inherited in the pass. The Samaritan's we're Israelites.

The parable of good samaritan story was Jesus trying to tell the Jews that eventually this beef between you guys and northern kingdom will end and you will be united again as one nation. And he showed to not have hatred for them because one of them can help you in a bad jam and one of your own (the Jews) can forsake you..at the end of the day you're all one nation. At that time Judah and israel fought against each other and the Jews regarded the northern kingdom as GENTILES because God was not dealing with them at that time. But God's end mission with Christ was to unite the whole 12 tribes back together under Christ..

In conclusion this scripture below sums up the whole meaning of the new testament and the mission of Jesus Christ.

MATTHEW 1:21

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save HIS people (Israel) from THEIR sins."

EZEKIEL 37:15-23

"The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Moreover, thou son of man, take one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions:

(Judah and children of Israel here is referring to the tribe of Judah, and Benjamin and Levi) together they were known as the Jews of the southern kingdom of Israel.)

"Then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: (see now that's referring to the NORTHERN Kingdom of Israel which consisted of 9 tribes (or sometimes referred to as "10 tribes")

"and join them one to another into one stick; (Judah and Ephraim) and they shall become one in thine hand. (One nation)"

"And when the children (descendants) of your people (Israelites) shall speak unto you, saying, Will you show us what you meant by these?

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." (Ephraim 9 tribes joined with Judah 3 tribes makes the 12 tribes of Israel one nation)

"And the sticks whereon you write shall be in your hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen (gentiles), wherever they be gone, and will gather them (Israelites) on every side (of earth) and bring them into their own land:"

"And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king (JESUS) shall be king to them all: And they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:" (Judah and Israel or Judah and Ephraim)

"Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions (sins): but I will SAVE them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."


HOSEA 1:10-11

"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not my people", (GENTILES) There it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. (ISRAELITES)

Then shall the children of Judah (Jews) and the children of Israel (northern kingdom) be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, (Christ) and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

ROMANS 9:24-27, 30-33

"Even us, whom he has called, not of the Jews (Judah) only, but also of the Gentiles? (ISRAEL)

As he saith also in Osee, (HOSEA) I will call them my people, which were not my people; (Northern Kingdom) And her beloved, which was not beloved.

And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people? (gentiles); There shall they be called the children of the living God. (Israelites)

"Esaias (Isaiah) also cried concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel (northern kingdom) be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be SAVED:"

30-33
"What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, (northern kingdom) which followed not after righteousness, (committed idolatry) Have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith?. (the new covenant)

But Israel, (Judah/the Jews) which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: And whosoever (of Israel) believes on him shall not be ashamed." (Isaiah 45:17)

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #11

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:11 am
MATTHEW 28:19

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

...The "all nations" was ISRAELITES.
ACTS 1:8

But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you,+ and you will be witnesses+ of me in Jerusalem,+ in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.”


Was the Samaritan woman Jesus preached to also an Israelite ? (John 4)

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:11 am
Those Paul talked to in Romans were Israelites. In Corinth , thessalonians, collasians, ect. We're ALL Israelites ...
So your saying that "great multitude of the Greeks "(Acts 17:4) that became believers when Paul preached to them, were ... Israeiltes ? What about Cornelius the Roman officier? (Acts 10)






JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #12

Post by Roman Yuriel »

1213 wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 7:17 am
Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 5:04 pm ...
How can you disagree when Christ said out his own mouth he was only sent for the house of Israel?
Sorry, I don’t think I disagree with what Jesus says.
Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 5:04 pm...He sent the Jews to go fetch the rest of Israel. The "all nations" is referring to ISRAELITES who dwelled among all nations ...
Sorry, I think the scripture means all nations, not all Jews in other nations. There seems to be nothing to support your interpretation.
Nothing?

Matthew 15:24

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.- Jesus Christ.

So are we calling Christ a liar now? Clearly the misunderstanding is folks believing the "all nations" was referring to actual gentiles and not gentiled Israelites. But Christ said he only came for the house of Israel.

Sooooo.... πŸ€·πŸ½β€β™‚οΈ Am I supposed to ignore that? And the bazillion scriptures in favor of the nation of Israel? Like namely! The kingdom of heaven and the names of all 12 tribes of Israel (not all nations) on the gates of the city protected by angels of God.

I don't see Egypt, EDOM, Moab, Ethiopia, Babylonians, Romans, Greeks, Persians, ect. I do not see their names of the gates of new Jerusalem.

Whose home land is the Israelites? Jerusalem! Israel. The land promised to their fathers by God FOREVER.

"All nations" have nothing to do with that.

Will all nations be in the kingdom? Yes. But the Israelites will inherit it and the power and government over it. They will rule over the earth with Christ.

That's the true gospel.

ISAIAH 14:1-2

"1. For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose ISRAEL and set them in their own land: and the strangers (gentiles) shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

(Note: God said ISRAEL not "all nations" aka actual gentiles, the gentiles are gonna cleave to the Israelites after armageddon and Israelites will possess them in that day meaning have power over them)

2". And the people (Israelites) shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors."

That don't sound like salvation for all people to me.

God said whomever the Israelites were captives to and oppressed by? In this kingdom? They will be Israels captives. God is a God of vengeance and payback. Nothing goes unpunished. He has not forgotten what has been done to his people and he will redeem them and avenge them.

Here's another scripture that takes away the all people can be saved doctrine. Again this is the kingdom of God on Earth. This hasn't happened yet. How can you get all people saved out of this scripture?

ISAIAH 60:9-14

"Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring your sons (descendants) from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD your God, and to the Holy One of ISRAEL (all peopleπŸ€”), because he hath glorified thee. (Hmm how come he's not called the God of all nations? Or the God of all people? Why is it always the God of ISRAEL?) no one can answer that and make it make sense outside of a bloodline.)

"And the sons of strangers (gentiles) shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister unto you: for in my wrath I smote you (Israelites), but in my favour have I had mercy on you (Israelites).

Therefore your gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that men may bring unto you the forces (riches) of the Gentiles, and that their kings may be brought.

For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you (Israelites) shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. (Wow... So much for salvation for all people...God says in the kingdom those who refuse to serve Israels kingdom will suffer judgments)

"The glory of Lebanon shall come unto you, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious.

The sons (descendants) also of them that afflicted you shall come bending unto you; and all they that despised you shall bow themselves down at the soles of your feet; and they shall call you, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel."

(God says the descendants of all the nations who done evil to the Israelites? Will come bending and Bowing with respect and no their place. If Christ died for all people? All sins are supposed to be forgiven right? So why is God punishing the descendants of the nations that done evil to the Israelites? Seems if Christ was for all? This wouldn't be a thing. You guys gotta read your Bible. And not just the new testament which is the middle of the story and you guys miss All of this prior. This all refutes an all inclusive Christ died for every one doctrine. It does not stand up against it.

God says the kingdom will be a government in which his people the israelites will rule. And all nations the real gentiles will have to be in subjection to this new government or.....else.... Which means death will STILL be apart of the kingdom of God. Which again proves Christ did not die for all people.

Israel is a special holy race bloodline that God chose and God wants to rule this earth. Period. And those who don't fall in line will feel the wrath of God. At the very LEAST you have to acknowledge the Israelites as God's people above all people on the earth. I believe if you bless Israel you will be blessed. And respect and acknowledge their place with God. If you buck up against that? I believe you will curse yourself and not find any favor with God.

Christ died to redeem the Israelites and give them a chance to inherit the kingdom of God. The rest of the nations are just simply here to serve that. πŸ€·πŸ½β€β™‚οΈ

And With all due respect? I have plenty of scripture to support the claim. God is not the author of confusion. The all nations in reference to "salvation in Christ" is about the gentiled Israelites. I'm just getting started. When you read Isaiah 63 again. That proves Christ didn't die for all people. When you read malachi 1:1-5 God's hatred towards the nation of EDOM. Proves Christ didn't die for all people.

Obadiah 1. (Which is a reference to Isaiah 14. The Lucifer in isaiah 14 Is EDOM/ESAU in Obadiah 1)

But that's another whole topic. But clearly God favors the bloodline of Israel. So can we stop trying to force everyone else into something they don't belong in?

All a gentile has to do is respect the Israelites as God's people. And lead a primarily righteous life. You may have a place (as a servant) in God's kingdom. But no you will not inherit the kingdom of God if you are not an Israelite in the flesh and in Christ.

And one more scripture. For more proof for my claim.

ROMANS 9:1-5

"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertains (BELONGS) the adoption, (grafting in) and the glory, (the kingdom) and the covenants, (Christ) and the giving of the law, (commandments) and the service of God, (blessings) and the promises; whose are the fathers, (ancestors of Israel) and of whom as concerning the "flesh" Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen."

Paul said concerning the flesh of Israel? The bloodline Christ came for. And what belongs to the Israelites in the FLESH. Is the adoption which is the grafting in. (Ezekiel 37). The glory which is the kingdom of God. Rulership over it..the covenants. Old and new. That means CHRIST belongs to Israelites according to the flesh. And so on and so forth. It all pertains to the Israelites, So yes I have proof.

As it is written:

ISAIAH 45:17

"But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end."

(GOD calls the Israelites a WORLD (nation) without an end. Who will be saved with an everlasting salvation. (Sound familiar?)

This is the correct translation of john 3:16.

JOHN 3:16

"For God so loved the world (the nation of ISRAEL), that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever (of the nation of Israel) believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Everlasting salvation)

ISRAEL A WORLD WITHOUT AN END.
ISRAEL THE NATION GOD SO LOVED.

Dueteronomy 7:6-8

"For you (Israelites) are an holy people unto the LORD your God: the LORD your God has chosen you to be a special people (nation) unto himself, ABOVE ALL PEOPLE that are upon the face of the earth. (Israels nation is above all people)

"The LORD did not set his "LOVE" upon you, (Israelites) nor choose you? Because ye were more in number than any people? For you were the fewest of all people: But because the LORD LOVED you, and because he would keep the OATH which he had sworn unto your fathers, has the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

God declared his LOVE for the ISRAELITES. His love is his OATH he swore to their ancestors. This thing is forever with God. So ofcourse if a portion of the nation falls away and needs saving? Who is their savior?

Exactly....

Matthew 1:21

"And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall SAVE "HIS" PEOPLE from THEIR sins."

Whose Christ's people? The ISRAELITES. HE IS A JEW. HIS PEOPLE needed a savior. To get back on the right track with God.

AMOS 3:1-2

"Hear this word that the LORD haS spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You ONLY have I known of all the families (All nations) of the earth: therefore I will punish YOU (Israelites) for all YOUR iniquities."

"Save HIS people from THEIR sins"....

I am not sent BUT unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel..

In other words "I'm only here for my family bloodline who wants to do right by our God. As Paul said not all Israel are Israel. Israelites have to be in Christ and walk a primarily righteous life to be counted as God's. But it's still about the flesh at the end of the day.

Now the question shoildt be debating if Christ died for all people or not. But rather WHO are the Israelites today? Cuz obviously it is important to know.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #13

Post by Roman Yuriel »

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:22 am
Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:11 am
MATTHEW 28:19

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

...The "all nations" was ISRAELITES.
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Cornelious was an Israelite from the northern kingdom of Israel. That was cut off from the old covenant.

Genesis 48:17-20

"And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put your right hand upon his head.

And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a "multitude of nations".

(Ephraim would go on to be the head tribe of the northern kingdom of Israel. You hear "Judah & Ephraim. Or Judah & Israel. Again there was A SPLIT in Israel in the old testament before Christ. Wherein God cut off 3/4 of the nation from his covenant. Ephraim. Or "Israel" (Ephraim represented 9 tribes of Israel) God discontinued this section of the nation from his covenant. This they became GENTILES. yes they were the GREEKS, The Romans, ect ect. (Not by blood but by citizenship) but spiritually they were not regarded as Israelites until they accepted christ then they were counted as Israelites again.

The Jews again. (Judah) were never cut off. God remained with Judah all the way and sent Christ through Judah. When Christ was here he only dealt with the Jewish section of Israel. That's why he said DONT go Into the ways of the "gentiles" yet. (Referring to ISRAELITES of the northern kingdom (Ephraim (who would become a multitude of nations) "gentiles" spiritually. He said don't go to them yet. Instead only go to the jews.

The mission was to establish the Jews FIRST with the new covenant gospel be ause Judah is the head tribe over ALL Israel. All the king's and even Christ and king David come from Judah. Judah is ordained the head tribe. That's why it says "to the Jew FIRST then the "gentile'. Aka (Ephraim the northern kingdom GENTILED Israelites. Who before accepting Christ? Had no God and to the Jews were considered not their people. He established the Jews first then he sent the Jews to go teach and find the REST of Israel who became "a multitude of nations" due to being cut off from the original covenant with God. For CENTURIES those Israelites had no God. Only the Jews. But God's plan was to reestablish them and bring them back to him as one nation under Christ.

Cornelious was the beginning of the Jews going after the REST of Israel. Cornelious was an Israelite in the flesh born in Rome having citizenship and was in the Roman army. But he was an Israelite and he had strong faith and God blessed him and sent the disciples to him to teach him the new covenant and that was the beginning of bringing the nation of Israel all together. )

Yes the samaritan woman was an ISRAELITE. the land of Samaria is in NORTHERN ISRAEL. It's the capital of northern israel.

John 4:5-9

"Then cometh he (Jesus) to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob (ISRAEL) gave to his son Joseph.

(Samaria was inherited by Israelites)

"Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.

There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink. (For his disciples were gone away unto the city to buy meat.)

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans"

(Remember I told you the northern kingdom israelites were cut off from the old covenant. Fir centuries Judah and the northern kingdom israelites were at odds warring with eachother. It was like crips and bloods.

They hated eachother. Which clearly was not what God has in mind for his people to be decided and fighting eachother. But he was so upset with the northern kingdom. For their idolatry with the REAL gentile nations. That he cut them off and destroyed their kingdom. But he stayed with the kingdom. Of Judah (,the Jews) so come this woman of Samaria (an Israelite from the northern kingdom) is perplexed that a Jew would deal with her. Because again they warred with eachother. But Christ's mission was to unite them. That's what the parable of the good Samaritan was about. Uniting all Israel back together. Saying the beef and war needs to cease. The Israelites are ALL ONE in Christ Jesus. Neither Jew (Judah) nor "Greek" (gentiled israelite)

It's important to know the term JEW does not apply to the entire nation of Israel. Jew only represents a small portion. So when it says neither Jew not Greek? If you take the translation to mean neither Israel or non Israelite. It would mean neither the tribes of Judah Benjamin and Levi or any other race. ... Ok what about the other 9 tribes of Israel? See what I mean?


Correct interpretation is neither Israelite from the kingdom of Judah or a GENTILED Israelite from the northern kingdom of Israel. For ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus. As it is written.

EZEKIEL 37:21-25

"And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, (GENTILES) whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; And one king (Christ) shall be king to them all: And they shall be no more "two nations", neither shall they be divided into "two kingdoms" any more at all:

neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will SAVE them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob (Israel) my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, (descendants) and their children's children (descendants descendants) for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever."

So yeah. It's all about the israelites. The canaanite woman was an Israelite, cornelious was an Israelite. The people of acts speaking tongues (different languages) were all Israelites receiving the gospel. Those spoken to in the book of Romans, collasians, thessalonians, Corinthians ect were all israelites.

Remember when Paul was stopped by a Roman military general? Asking if he was an Egyptian? Paul said no he is not Egyptian he is an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin please let me go and talk to THE people. (The people referring to HIS people the israelites) no one outside of Israel was taught the gospel. The nations heard about it but it was not for them.

Also. You might want to get the book of Apocrypha. It's the mediator between the old testament and the new testament. In the regular bible it ends with book of malachi which is the end of the old testament. Then it goes to Matthew to start the new. Now. Historically it was the Persians and needs who were ruling by the book of malachi. And when you switch to Matthew it's already in the midst of the Roman Empire.

You're missing important history in between persia and Rome and that history is the history of THE GREEKS. The greeks came before Rome (greco-roman empire) you get all this history in the book of the Apocrypha which was ORIGINALLY apart of the king James bible and belongs in the bible. It is a great sin that try removed that book. You will see history of alexander the great in that book and you will see the history of the Israelites plight dealing with the greeks empire before Rome . Many Israelites bared the name of Greeks. In a nutshell while in captivity to Greece.
ACTS 1:8

But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you,+ and you will be witnesses+ of me in Jerusalem,+ in all Judea and Samaria, and to the most distant part of the earth.”


Was the Samaritan woman Jesus preached to also an Israelite ? (John 4)

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 12:11 am
Those Paul talked to in Romans were Israelites. In Corinth , thessalonians, collasians, ect. We're ALL Israelites ...
So your saying that "great multitude of the Greeks "(Acts 17:4) that became believers when Paul preached to them, were ... Israeiltes ? What about Cornelius the Roman officier? (Acts 10)






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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:49 am The Romans... were counted as Israelites
So are you saying the gentiles were counted or considered spiritually as Israelites? Not that all these people were literal decendants of Abraham? Is that what you mean?

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by PinSeeker »

I think the problem, here, Roman, is either a misunderstanding or just a communication difficulty with who actually makes up God's Israel. If you mean to say that those who are truly of the House of Israel include people of all nations, Jews and Gentiles, then... that's right.

Regarding John 3:16 specifically:

it is indeed the world in the sense that Christ's atonement was sufficient to achieve the salvation of all

it is also the world of Israel -- although that seems kind of a clumsy way to put it -- in the sense that Christ's atonement was only effectual for (and thus for) those whom God chose before the foundation of the world, His elect, those given to Christ by the Father. So yes, I agree that Christ did not die for all people.

When people say "Israelites," they are generally referring to Old Testament believers, or "Old Israel." That group of people was made up almost entirely of ethnic Jews. Since the advent of Christ, though, we are referred to as His Church and are called New Israel. But we are not a different people. Together, we all make up one people -- one Nation -- which has nothing to do with bloodlines. It has everything to do with whether one is elect of God or not. Those who are of the House of Israel -- God's Israel, true Jews as Paul talks about them at the end of Romans 2 -- include people of every tongue, tribe, and nation. Eventually, they (we) will number as the stars of heaven and the grains of sand on the seashore, just as God promised Abraham long ago.

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #16

Post by 1213 »

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:23 am ...Matthew 15:24

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.- Jesus Christ.

...
I was speaking about this:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #17

Post by Roman Yuriel »

JehovahsWitness wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:44 am
Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:49 am The Romans... were counted as Israelites
So are you saying the gentiles were counted or considered spiritually as Israelites? Not that all these people were literal decendants of Abraham? Is that what you mean?

JW
Descendants of Abraham are Ishmael, Jacob and Esau. Romans 9 tells God hated Esau but loves Jacob (Israel) And Ishmael was never apart of it. It's counted for the children of PROMISE which has always been the Israelites. Who a big portion would become "a multitude of nations". The "gentiles" in the new testament in regards to salvation in Christ is referring to blood line Israelites.

And no the gentiles as in real non Israelite related nations were never counted as anything.

Isaiah 40:15-17

"Behold, the nations (real gentiles) are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing. And Lebanon is not sufficient to burn, nor the beasts thereof sufficient for a burnt offering. All nations (real gentiles) before him are as NOTHING; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity."

Those gentiles are counted as nothing. The ISRAELITE gentiles however the gospel was given to to accept and be grafted back into the family covenant and promises with God of being an israelite that walks in righteousness with God.

Again the "gentiles" that the gospel was preached to we're Israelites who had lost their heritage of Israel from God cutting them off from the old covenant.

Cornelius again....was an Israelite.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #18

Post by Roman Yuriel »

1213 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:23 am ...Matthew 15:24

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.- Jesus Christ.

...
I was speaking about this:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20
I explained to someone else on here those "all nations" was referring to ISRAELITE gentiles. Not actual gentiles. In genesis Jacob (Israel) refered to his son Ephraim saying in the future he would become a "multitude of nations". Ephraim was the head tribe of the northern kingdom of Israel. 9 tribes were under his name during the split in israel. God wound up cutting off Ephraim or rather the kingdom of Israel (9 tribes) and declared them no more his PEOPLE. (Hosea 1) that means they LOST their Israelite heritage and name with God. So they were not considered israelites anymore. And they dwelled in many places thus taking on the names of "all nations". As they were scattered abroad.

Shoot they even were over in the western world during the time of Christ. They had been out west for roughly 2500 years now. They were out west atleast 500 years before Christ. So Israelites were all over the earth. But they had been discontinued from the old covenant prior. So when Christ came they were lost. Christ established the Jews first the Judah section of Israel which God remained with all the way up to and through Christ. Then they sent the Jews in Christ to go and "teach all nations" as in find the rest of the Israelites dwelling among the nations and teach them the new gospel so they can be grafted back in through new covenant with Christ.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:30 pm
the gentiles as in real non Israelite related nations were never counted as anything
So non-Israeilite gentiles existed on earth at the time? Is that correct? If so where did they live?







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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

Post #20

Post by 2timothy316 »

Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 3:30 pm
1213 wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:40 pm
Roman Yuriel wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 1:23 am ...Matthew 15:24

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.- Jesus Christ.

...
I was speaking about this:

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20
I explained to someone else on here those "all nations" was referring to ISRAELITE gentiles. Not actual gentiles.
Define 'actual gentile' please.

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