John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by Roman Yuriel »

John 3:16. Probably the most popular scripture in the Bible.

With a first read of the verse having not read the stories prior? One would be made to believe that Christ was talking about All People when he said God so loved the World.

But when you read the stories prior (the old testament)? And read the whole chapter itself in it's context? It's hard to see how Christ was actually talking about the world as in all people.

It is my belief that Christ did not die for all people, ye rather. He died for the bloodline or aka the children of the house of Israel. I'm going to attempt to prove this.

Firstly. What is going on in the chapter? Let's paint a picture.

Christ is relaxing in his home for the time being, it's night time. A man by the name of Nicodemus comes to him by night against orders from his clique (scribes saducees and pharisees) who were not feeling what Christ was doing at the time to say the least. But curious? Nick wanted to see for him self what is the deal.

Nicodemus is a Jew. From the kingdom of Judah. (Which consisted of only Judah, Benjamin and Levi tribes of the nation of Israel. )

Truth: The term Jew only represented 3 tribes of the 12 tribes of Israel. It only represented a section of the Israelites. It is a nickname for JUDAH
(JEW-DAH) which is the tribe Christ descendant from in the flesh.

There's a huge misunderstanding that Jew is just another name for an Israelite. All tribes are jews. That couldn't be further from the truth.

The other section of Israelites (northern kingdom) which consisted of 9 tribes (or 10) but technically 9. If people know their bibles and they should if they're trying to debate doctrine of Christianity. Or prove their doctrine. One would know the history in Israel of a great split that divided the family of Israel into 2 nations and 2 kingdoms.

Northern and southern kingdom of Israel. Judah and Ephraim or Judah and Israel.. were their aliases at this time.

This info is found in the book of Hosea 1 which apostle Paul references in ROMANS 9 towards the end.

In a nutshell. You can read the chapter yourself. God would cut of the kingdom of Israel due to too much idolatry and forsaking his covenant he made with them. Resulting in him setting his face against them and being their enemy. He would cut Israel off (northern kingdom) and declare them no more his people.

Only a portion.... See some ignorantly believe God cut off all Israel and forsook all israel. No. He forsook a SECTION (granted a greater section) majority of the nation. But in Hosea 1 he cut off only the kingdom of Israel (Ephraim)) he did NOT cut off the kingdom of Judah. He declared he would remain with Judah and SAVE Judah but not by war. (Obviously referring to Christ) as God said I will raise up the tents of Judah FIRST.

This is why Christ only dealt with Jews while he was alive. And commanded to not go into the way of the gentiles. (Even Israelite gentiles)

Yes. Israelite gentiles. Come the time of Christ they had been cut off and had no God for centuries. While God only remained with Judah (The Jews)
The rest of Israel fell away and lost their name and heritage and had to go by the names of all the other nations where they dwelled or were born.

When God said "ye are not my people and I am not your God" those israelites at that day became SPIRUTUALLY Gentiles. Though Israel in the flesh? They were not in the covenant anymore.

Que Christ....

In Hosea 1 God had a plan after cutting off Israel he said that in the end after Judah was saved. The rest that was called not my people (gentiled Israelites) would then be called the sons of the living God. (Meaning God would allow them to be grafted back in in the new covenant once they accepted Christ)

Ok. So now Nicodemus and Christ. John 3:16.

These are 2 Jews who are a conversing and remeniscing about past events that happened to THEIR ancestors. Prior to John 3:16 Christ references a situation between God, Moses and Israel in the desert after the Great Exodus from Egypt. You can read the story in the book of numbers. Of them complaining and God sending poisonous snakes to attack them until they repented. In which God told Moses to make a brass serpent that whoso ever looked at it would be healed of their poison and sickness.

The ONLY people in the wilderness were ISRAELITES. So that "whoso ever" clearly was referencing the group of the Israelites "whoso ever" of Israel.

Christ told Nicodemus though that he would be raised up the same way for the people. Why?

Because God so loved the "world" that he gave his only son to die for THEIR sins. That "whoso ever" of that world would not die but receive eternal life.
🤔🤔🤔

Hmmmm. Ok it's time to play detective now. Let's break down the words in the verse carefully.

Starting with "For God so LOVED".

IN ALL the Bible the ONLY people God declared his "love" for was the house of Israel, they who he lead of Egypt to establish their own kingdom.

If God loved "all people" why did he have Israel ransack many nations in route to power and dominance? Why would God say anyone who messs with Israel he will destroy? That sounds exactly like favoritism. He destroyed Egypt nation for israels sake. For example.

Now let's examine what his "love" is. His love is his OATH is his PROMISE.

Dueteronomy 7:6-8 declares the nation of Israel is beloved by God above all people on the face of the earth. He said however he did not set his LOVE on Israel because of their number or size . For they were the minority. But because he swore an OATH to the father's of the Israelites. That he brought Israel out of Egypt.

God's love is his Oath (promise) and his choice. He chose Israel for his reasons and promised them an eternal promise.

Israel were the only nation God declared he loved. He did not love (choose and promise ) all people. Only the bloodline of Israel.

Amos 3. God Declares that Israel is the ONLY FAMILY that he KNOWS (deals with) therefore ISRAEL will be punished for THEIR sins.

AMOS 3:1-2

"Hear this word that the LORD has spoken against you, O children (descendants) of ISRAEL against the whole family (bloodline) which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You ONLY have I known (chosen) of all the families (bloodlines) of the earth: therefore I will punish you (Israelites) for all your iniquities (sins)."

God would punish Israel but his plan was to redeem Israel in the end.

"For God so "loved"(chose and promised) the "world" (the nation of Israel) that whoever (of the family) might not perrish but have eternal life.

Biblical proof that John 3:16 is about Israel. Christ was referencing this chapter from the old testament in the book of Isaiah.

ISAIAH 45:15-17

"Verily thou art a God that hides thyself, O God of ISRAEL, the Saviour. They shall be ashamed, and also confounded (confused), all of them: They shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

But ISRAEL shall be SAVED in the LORD with an EVERLASTING SALVATION (everlasting life): Ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end."

See here God refers to the nation of Israel as a WORLD. A world without an end. He shall bring an everlasting salvation to. God was referred to as the GOD OF ISRAEL (not all people)....

So CLEARLY now in context? We get a better understanding of what Christ was saying. He was referring to the "world" of the house of Israel.

And one cannot spiritualize Israel neither based off Romans 9. Because Paul states it's ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. Not the "spirit"

ROMANS 9:1-6

"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my KINSMEN according to the FLESH (bloodline): Who are ISRAELITES; To whom pertains (belongs to) the adoption (the grafting in/gentiled Israelites/Ezekiel 37), "and the glory, (the kingdom of God) and the covenants (old & new), and the giving of the law (commandment enforcers), and the service of God (blessings & protection), and the promises (eternal kingdom); whose are the fathers (ancestors), and of whom as concerning the FLESH (bloodline) Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"

See a regular gentile cannot become spiritually an Israelite. But Israelites at one point spiritually became "gentiles". And those israelites and even any Jew who does not accept CHRIST and the new covenant? Are NOT considered israelites to God. But they have to be an Israelite in the flesh first to even have that opportunity. Because the opportunity always was for the israelites in the first place.

So in conclusion? I know this will be heavily debated or attempted to be heavily debated. And I'm sure someone will bring up "go ye and teach all nations" which was referring to fishing out those gentiled Israelites from among all nations as they dwelled among all nations barring the names of all nations. As a result of being discontinued from the heritage of Israel and the old covenant.

But truth is Christ only died for the house of Israel.

MATTHEW 15:24-26

"But he answered and said, I am not sent (by God) but (ONLY) unto the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.

Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not good to take the children's (Israel's) bread, and to cast it to dogs (gentiles)."

And yes he wound up blessing that woman of Canaan anyways because she actually was an Israelite from the northern kingdom. She bore the name of Canaan because her section of the israelite family were the ones cut off from the old covenant. But she had faith though and knew of the coming of the messiah and prophecy and Christ blessed her because of her faith. Even though his mission at the time was to only establish the Jews at that moment.

It wasn't until after he passed and went on that he would send the Jews to go and find the rest of Israel and bring them to the father with the new covenant.

The Samaritan woman was an Israelite from the northern kingdom..Her tribe Ephraim they inhabited the capital of northern Israel which was the city of Samaria that Jacob inherited in the pass. The Samaritan's we're Israelites.

The parable of good samaritan story was Jesus trying to tell the Jews that eventually this beef between you guys and northern kingdom will end and you will be united again as one nation. And he showed to not have hatred for them because one of them can help you in a bad jam and one of your own (the Jews) can forsake you..at the end of the day you're all one nation. At that time Judah and israel fought against each other and the Jews regarded the northern kingdom as GENTILES because God was not dealing with them at that time. But God's end mission with Christ was to unite the whole 12 tribes back together under Christ..

In conclusion this scripture below sums up the whole meaning of the new testament and the mission of Jesus Christ.

MATTHEW 1:21

"And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save HIS people (Israel) from THEIR sins."

EZEKIEL 37:15-23

"The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, Moreover, thou son of man, take one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions:

(Judah and children of Israel here is referring to the tribe of Judah, and Benjamin and Levi) together they were known as the Jews of the southern kingdom of Israel.)

"Then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: (see now that's referring to the NORTHERN Kingdom of Israel which consisted of 9 tribes (or sometimes referred to as "10 tribes")

"and join them one to another into one stick; (Judah and Ephraim) and they shall become one in thine hand. (One nation)"

"And when the children (descendants) of your people (Israelites) shall speak unto you, saying, Will you show us what you meant by these?

Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand." (Ephraim 9 tribes joined with Judah 3 tribes makes the 12 tribes of Israel one nation)

"And the sticks whereon you write shall be in your hand before their eyes. And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen (gentiles), wherever they be gone, and will gather them (Israelites) on every side (of earth) and bring them into their own land:"

"And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king (JESUS) shall be king to them all: And they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:" (Judah and Israel or Judah and Ephraim)

"Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions (sins): but I will SAVE them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."


HOSEA 1:10-11

"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, "Ye are not my people", (GENTILES) There it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. (ISRAELITES)

Then shall the children of Judah (Jews) and the children of Israel (northern kingdom) be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, (Christ) and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

ROMANS 9:24-27, 30-33

"Even us, whom he has called, not of the Jews (Judah) only, but also of the Gentiles? (ISRAEL)

As he saith also in Osee, (HOSEA) I will call them my people, which were not my people; (Northern Kingdom) And her beloved, which was not beloved.

And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people? (gentiles); There shall they be called the children of the living God. (Israelites)

"Esaias (Isaiah) also cried concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel (northern kingdom) be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be SAVED:"

30-33
"What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, (northern kingdom) which followed not after righteousness, (committed idolatry) Have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith?. (the new covenant)

But Israel, (Judah/the Jews) which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.

For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; as it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: And whosoever (of Israel) believes on him shall not be ashamed." (Isaiah 45:17)

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by onewithhim »

To answer the question---the world or Israel?---God so loved the world of mankind, not just Israel. By means of Jesus, "ALL the nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves." (Genesis 22:18)

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by Miles »

onewithhim wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 4:28 pm To answer the question---the world or Israel?---God so loved the world of mankind, not just Israel. By means of Jesus, "ALL the nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves." (Genesis 22:18)
Looks like you nailed it. :approve:


Genesis 22:18 KJV
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Genesis 22:18 establishes that what god is blessing is "all the nations of the earth," so when it is said that "god so loved the world" in John 3:16 it was in reference to "all the nations of the earth" as set forth in genesis 22:18

"the world" (John 3:16) = "all the nations of the earth." (Gen 22:18)

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by 1213 »

Roman Yuriel wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:52 pm John 3:16. ...
...IN ALL the Bible the ONLY people God declared his "love" for was the house of Israel, they who he lead of Egypt to establish their own kingdom.
...
But truth is Christ only died for the house of Israel.

MATTHEW 15:24-26

"But he answered and said, I am not sent (by God) but (ONLY) unto the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.
....
I disagree with your interpretation about who God loves, because of this:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

But, it is true that Jesus came for the Israel. However, he sent his disciples for other nations and the good news is also for them.

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by Roman Yuriel »

No he sent his disciples to go fetch the REST of Israel. Did you read my entire post? You're assuming that Christ was dealing with all Israel when he was here. No he only dealt with the Jews. Remember 75 percent of the nation of Israel were cut off from the old covenant with God. Christ was only dealing with 25 percent. Only the Jew section (kingdom of Judah) he had to establish the Jews first that was God's plan. Once Jesus went on? He sent the Jews to go fetch the rest of Israel. The "all nations" is referring to ISRAELITES who dwelled among all nations going by the named of all nations. These Israelites were GENTILES. And needed to hear the new covenant so they can be grafted back into the family of Israel.

Christ came for the JEWS. The disciples (Jews) went for the rest of the house of Israel which God declared are like "the sand of the sea". Which means there's a wholllllle lot out there. Israelites that were spiritually gentiles until they accepted the gospel of. Christ.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by Roman Yuriel »

1213 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:04 am
Roman Yuriel wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:52 pm John 3:16. ...
...IN ALL the Bible the ONLY people God declared his "love" for was the house of Israel, they who he lead of Egypt to establish their own kingdom.
...
But truth is Christ only died for the house of Israel.

MATTHEW 15:24-26

"But he answered and said, I am not sent (by God) but (ONLY) unto the lost sheep of the house of ISRAEL.
....
I disagree with your interpretation about who God loves, because of this:

But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who mistreat you and persecute you, that you may be children of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust.
Mat. 5:44-45

But, it is true that Jesus came for the Israel. However, he sent his disciples for other nations and the good news is also for them.

Therefore go, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I commanded you. Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Mat. 28:19-20

How can you disagree when Christ said out his own mouth he was only sent for the house of Israel?
That other script you quoted about blessing and cursings. That was referring to ISRAELITES dealing with Israelites. It goes back to Leviticus 19:17 where God says love your people, don't hold grudges against eachother and always be trying to correct and help eachother. Remember.....Israel was split up and we're enemies of eachother. Christ was sent to unite all tribes together. You can't be united if you're cursing and hating eachother.

And He sent his disciples to go fetch the REST of Israel. Did you read my entire post? You're assuming that Christ was dealing with all Israel when he was here. No he only dealt with the Jews. Remember 75 percent of the nation of Israel were cut off from the old covenant with God. Christ was only dealing with 25 percent. Only the Jew section (kingdom of Judah) he had to establish the Jews first that was God's plan. Once Jesus went on? He sent the Jews to go fetch the rest of Israel. The "all nations" is referring to ISRAELITES who dwelled among all nations going by the named of all nations. These Israelites were GENTILES. And needed to hear the new covenant so they can be grafted back into the family of Israel.

Christ came for the JEWS. The disciples (Jews) went for the rest of the house of Israel which God declared are like "the sand of the sea". Which means there's a wholllllle lot out there. Israelites that were spiritually gentiles until they accepted the gospel of. Christ.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Roman Yuriel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:04 pm

How can you disagree when Christ said out his own mouth he was only sent for the house of Israel?
He did say that yes; what he did not say is that he would only die exclusively for the "the house of Israel
MATTHEW 20:28

Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many
John 3:16 KJV

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I would also point out Jesus indicated that many NON-ISRAELITES would have kingdom privileges because the natural descendants of Abraham would prove unworthy of the invitation Jesus was sent exclusively to extend to them.
MATTHEW 8:12

“I tell you that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens; whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.” (Matt. 8:5-12) .


To learn more please go to other posts related to...

THE 144, 000 , SPIRITUAL ISRAEL and ... RACISM
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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by 1213 »

Roman Yuriel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:04 pm ...
How can you disagree when Christ said out his own mouth he was only sent for the house of Israel?
Sorry, I don’t think I disagree with what Jesus says.
Roman Yuriel wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:04 pm...He sent the Jews to go fetch the rest of Israel. The "all nations" is referring to ISRAELITES who dwelled among all nations ...
Sorry, I think the scripture means all nations, not all Jews in other nations. There seems to be nothing to support your interpretation.

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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Roman Yuriel wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:52 pm
It is my belief that Christ did not die for all people, ye rather. He died for the bloodline or aka the children of the house of Israel.
If this is the case why did Jesus send his disciples to preach to people of all the nations?

MATTHEW 28:19

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
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Re: John 3:16 "the world" or "world of Israel"?

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Post by Roman Yuriel »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:00 pm
Roman Yuriel wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:52 pm
It is my belief that Christ did not die for all people, ye rather. He died for the bloodline or aka the children of the house of Israel.
If this is the case why did Jesus send his disciples to preach to people of all the nations?

MATTHEW 28:19

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
I explained it already in my original post. I don't think you guys are reading the whole thing.

The "all nations" was ISRAELITES. The Israelites (only 9 tribes) has been cut off from the old covenant. While God remained with the Jews (3 tribes)

This is the "all nations".

Romans 9:26-27

"And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; There shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias (Isaiah) also crieth concerning ISRAEL, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:"

The sand of the sea. That means there is a huge portion of Israelites out there that needed saving.

Notice he said ye are not my people? There ye shall be called children of the living God? That's a reference to the Israelites. Hosea 1 is what Paul is quoting or referencing here in Romans 9.

The REASON they were "all nations". Was because they LOST their name of Israel and heritage when God discontinued them from the old covenant.

Now.....that was only a PORTION of the house of Israel. The Israelites Christ was dealing with was only the Jew section. (Christ did not deal with ALL Israel) the rest of Israel were scattered abroad and going by the names of OTHER NATIONS. Israelites like cornelious. He was an Israelite but had Roman citenzship and was in the Roman army. But in the flesh he was an Israelite.

The ALL NATIONS was referring to Israelite GENTILES. That's who Christ came for to establish the Jews with the new covenant and then go find the rest of the nation of Israel and bring them BACK to God through the new covenant. They had no God until then because God had cut them off from the old covenant. Which is why he said "ye are not my people" which means "gentiles". Israelites were made gentiles. Once they accepted Christ ? They were no longer considered "not my people" and they were considered the sons of God (chosen) again.

If Israelites are in all nations going by the names of all nations and speaking the tongues of all the other nations? They're gonna be considered "all nations".

Those Paul talked to in Romans were Israelites. In Corinth , thessalonians, collasians, ect. We're ALL Israelites swelling in these cities going by these names. They were gentiles until they accepted Christ.

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