Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

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Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #1

Post by Checkpoint »

This question, along with similar or associated ones, has been asked, from the Gospels onwards, to this day.

Various answers have been given.

Here is a key exchange Jesus had with Jewish leaders and teachers, from John 10:
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him,
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’ (Psalm 82:6)?
35 If He called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as His very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?


37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
This is an interesting back and forth, I think.

1). What do you think about the above passage, and its speakers?

2). Is Jesus Christ the Son of God but not God the Son?

3). Or is he neither?

4). Or is he both?
Last edited by Checkpoint on Wed May 19, 2021 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #11

Post by Falling Light 101 »

.

Let us please examine 1Co 11:3  in the original manuscripts. please bear out my message and examine the Greek manuscripts.

1Co 11:3  θελω would - δε also - υμας you - ειδεναι know - οτι that
- παντος of every - ανδρος man - η his - κεφαλη head - ο is - χριστος the anointing
- εστιν it is - κεφαλη the head - δε also of - γυναικος the woman -
ο it is - ανηρ the husbands - κεφαλη head - δε also,
χριστου the anointing - ο is θεος God.

Meaning = 1Co 11:3  would also you know that of every man his head is The Anointing, it is the head also of the woman, it is the husbands head also,
the anointing is God.

When you look at the original manuscripts, you notice clearly that they say
THE ANOINTING , - it is the head of every man and of the woman and is the husbands head also,
The anointing is God. = χριστου the anointing - ο is - θεος God.
The fact is - 1Co 11:3  never says - that the husband is the head of the woman
Nor does it say God is the head of the Anointing.
This is untruthful - simply a Trinitarian mistranslation that was added into the translation.




1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 
Notice the KJV has the word { IS } in italics.
The  words  in  italics  in the King James Bible are added words  by Trinitarians to help the reader better understand the intent of the mistranslated perversion.

This mistranslating and perverting of the scripture in 1Co 11:3  is really no different than what the Trinitarians have done in - 1Co 14
Reading from the original manuscripts
In 1Co 14:28 - it says - If there be no interpreter, - “ sigaō - σιγατω - be silent “ in the church; and speak to themselves and to God.

:29 Let the prophets speak two or three and let the other judge. - :30 If anything is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first - - “ sigaō - σιγατω hold their peace. “
sigaō - σιγατω = BE SILENCE

But notice in the manuscripts - the original does not say “ let the first - hold his peace - “ - verse :30 again - literally says - let the first speaker also - “ BE SILENT. “ / No Talking.
This Greek word is “  sigaō - σιγατω SILENCE “ ... both in verses : 28 and : 30
In verse :29 - THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT - holding his peace  in the manuscripts - this is untruthful. - A Trinitarian perverted translation.

And verse :35 also - is totally mistranslated - it says - And if ( the women who are directly involved ) in the service where someone is speaking in tongues in the service
If the women “ “ WILL OR WOULD “ want to know “ A CERTAIN THING.. about the message and its interpretation, then let the women ask their husbands IN the home -
for it is a shame for women to say in the church. 
But this is only speaking of the situation directly involving speaking in tongues and the church order that ALSO involves the MALES, EVERYONE who are also commanded to be
“ SILENT “
sigaō - σιγατω
1Co 14:28  If there be no interpreter, - “ sigaō - σιγατω - be silent in the church; and speak to themselves and to God.

NOT JUST THE WOMAN -
We see that the Translators had a wide spectrum of English words to use - and to alter the message with. - And they changed the part where it commands males to be silent and changed it to say that the males are only supposed to be  HOLDING THEIR PEACE. But it says for all to keep silence in the church. “ sigaō - σιγατω SILENCE -

While the one is speaking in tongues, - the entire church is to “ σιγατω KEEP SILENT “   when they are finished, while the prophecy of the interpreter is being spoken - this is Greek word that is used - “ sigaō - σιγατω SILENCE - Mouth shut or, do not be continuing to talk or make any further audible noise - whatsoever. – This word has nothing to do with “ Holding Your peace “ in the manuscripts in any way - never. This is a lie
The Trinitarian Translation is literally filled with complete untruthfulness from Genesis to Revelation.

There is nothing about the verse about anyone “ holding their peace_” - and this was inserted into the Translation in order to mold, codify and invent a deceptive theology by adding it along - with all of the other bundles of other mistranslated words – to manipulate build the Trinitarian Organized Religiosity of a total perversion and alteration whereby they insert what the Trinitarian feels INSPIRED by His perverted sexist senses and what He feels ( pretends ) it should say – while pretending that the manuscripts are saying that the Male, afterward - is supposed to simply, just “ hold His peace “ While at the same time they all of a sudden  
they go over and suddenly change the very exact same Greek word for
  sigaō - σιγατω SILENCE - suddenly changed into “ Quiet or / HOLDING ONE’S PEACE “ - and they applied this same exact word – as silence - to the Female sex / woman.

In other words the same exact - actual literal Greek word for “ KEEPING SILENT sigaō - σιγατω “ does not really truly apply when it comes to the male sex – but it only applies strictly and only - when the Trinitarian comes to the female sex.

As we see - here in - 1Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia Quietness PEACE
  “ with all subjection. As the verse says - women - who are ONLY in the setting, as described of women simply being described as ( going through the learning process ) – and are to do it quietly and peacefully. - “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia quietness
And Trinitarians, they invent a whole theology simply by changing / switching and re arranging words in deliberate dishonesty - and by inserting a theology that mandates “ ALL WOMAN “ are to remain forever in silence - when the context of 1Ti 2:11 - was specifically detailing the details of women who are learning - Let the woman learn in - sigaō - σιγατω quietness Quietness with all subjection.

And, we easily notice - just - in just ten verses above here in  1Tim 2:2 - where it says “ that we may lead a solitary and -   “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia PEACEFUL  life, in all godliness and honesty. - They go ahead and use the word CORRECTELY translated as - - “ “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia PEACEFUL / QUIET
“ but they only use it situational, changes made - ONLY when it is not applied to the female sex.
Again veering sharply to the right and suddenly radically changing this word “ “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia PEACEFUL / QUIET QUIETNESS “ which is the SAME exact word applied to women / females who are commanded to be leaning in “ “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia Quietness / PEACEFULNESS “ - with all subjection. And they change it to say that women “
As ALL WOMAN “ in all churches at all times are forever / always / eternally to be silent. No exceptions – no if’ s – no and’ s - and no but’ s...
They are switching out words and re arranging the basic constructs of the messages - in order to INVENT a PRE CONCEIVED Church Doctrine that is found nowhere in the manuscripts.

In reality, in fact the entire and whole Trinitarian Translations is filled with nothing but countless switched out and transposed words - that never existed in the Original Manuscripts. This is everywhere in the translation.

Then, they go and change the word “ REVERENCE “ here in - 1Ti 2:9  is says - that women are to adorn themselves in modest apparel, with “ α ι δ ο υ ς  REVERENCE “ - and they CHANGE this word to say “ shame facedness “ But they go ahead and translate the words to say - exactly and precisely what it means - here in - Heb 12:28 Saying - We serve God ... with - “ α ι δ ο υ ς  REVERENCE “ and godly fear: -
But to the female sex - it is a “ shame facedness “ - And this is the same exact word
α ι δ ο υ ς  REVERENCE “ in other words - a woman is incapable of showing reverence because she is not a male
α ι δ ο υ ς  REVERENCE “ - in both 1Ti 2:9 and in Heb 12:28 =  α ι δ ο υ ς  =   - in both verses. ! - the Translation is so radically changed from the original manuscripts.


The Trinitarian translators clearly understood the difference between these two words meant.
As they randomly and correctly translated 1Pe 3:4 - where the Greek word “ QUIET  “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia PEACEFUL  QUIETNESS     “ was used in the manuscripts. = : 4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and “  “ ἡσυχία - hēsuchia PEACEFUL   “ spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
But when women are involved anywhere – it is suddenly transformed into nothing but silence women are an out cast.
__
So when we get to 1Co 11:3  - looking in the manuscript - the exact message is -

:3  θελω would - δε also - υμας you - ειδεναι know - οτι that
- παντος of every - ανδρος man - η his - κεφαλη head - ο is - χριστος the anointing
- εστιν it is - κεφαλη the head - δε also of - γυναικος the woman -
ο it is - ανηρ the husbands - κεφαλη head - δε also,
χριστου the anointing, - ο is - θεος God.
The Trinitarian Translation changes the passage to say - - -- --- ---- ----- ------ -------
1Co 11:3  But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 
Notice the KJV has the word { IS } in italics.
The  words  in  italics  in the King James Bible are added words  by Trinitarians to help the reader better understand the intent of the mistranslated perversion.
In other words, in the manuscript the words saying “ the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. 
THESE WORDS DO NOT EXIST - that is they added the word { IS } in italics.

η his - κεφαλη head - ο is - χριστος the anointing
- εστιν it is - κεφαλη the head - δε also of - γυναικος the woman -
ο it is - ανηρ the husbands - κεφαλη head - δε also,
χριστου the anointing, / CHRIST, - ο is - θεος God.
This is exactly - word for word in perfect order, what the passage says in the manuscripts
Trinitarians simply have no manuscripts for their faith.
Trinitarianism is a perveted religious system that is nothing but a set of contradictions that give a reason to deny the original manuscripts.
Trinitarianism DEMANDS that ……

The  Trinity (Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit), is described as
The Son is CO - ETERNAL _ CO - EQUAL _ CO - OMNIPRESENT - with the Father.
But the Son / Jesus according to the altered Trinitarian Translation, he was not co - eternal, co - equal and not co - omnipresent - with the Father. There is a glaring contradiction and the mistranslated altered verses I have presented are not even a drop in the ocean - compared to the mistranslated passages that exist on nearly every single page of the Trinitarian Mistranslation.

1Jn 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Yahashua, The Anointing
This is the true God, and eternal life.

Eph 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as The Anointing is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 
Eph 5:24  Therefore as the church is subject unto The Anointing , so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 

These verses are translated correctly - except the Trinitarians never translate the Greek word Christ .
the husband is the head of the wife -
but this is not the message in - 1Co 11:3  - it was inserted in - to develop the Trinity.







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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #12

Post by Revelations won »

Yes, He is the son of God the Father and he is God the son.

He indeed, inherited ALL that the Father hath, there are three that bear WITNESS IN HEAVEN, namely the God the Father, God the son (Jesus the Christ), and the Holy Ghost. These three constitute the Godhead. These three are on in purpose.

Yes Christ had glory with God the Father, before coming down from heaven to receive a body of flesh and bone.

Yes, Christ directed our ultimate worship to The Most High (God the Father) while upon the earth and always will reverence and direct our ultimate worship to God the Father.

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #13

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to Falling Light 101 in post #11]

Hi Falling Light 101.

Your post is well put together, but is not really about what this thread is about.

It is about aspects of male/female relatinship and the meaning of specific relevant verses.

May I suggest you offer a new and separate thread on what concerns you.

A separate thread will result in, I think, more posts to you than on this thread. Such posts are likely to also be more considered on your thread.

I wish you well.

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #14

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to Falling Light 101 in post #8]

Is that JW teaching as well? if not which group please?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #15

Post by Revelations won »

In response to the OP quest the answer is clearly #4 He is both.


In response to Falling light post # 8 I respond as follows:

Post #8
Post
by Falling Light 101 » Sun May 23, 2021 7:18 pm


The only reason that Yahashua is called or labeled or existing as a Son - is only and purely because of his humanity and fleshy nature that which God Spirit fully inhabited.

My response:

I do not think you can conclusively prove the above position from the scripture.


Spiritual Sons and daughters are not Born to Spirits = Spirits do not conceive children among themselves or of themselves

The natural, fleshly, and human sons are born to human beings as conceived children, not to Spirits. Sprits do not have sons. This simply is not a Biblical Godly aspect of God's nature.

My response: The above is a pretty strong doctrinal statement. Can you prove such by the scriptures?


Though Yahashua was conceived " O U T - O F " his father - The Holy Spirit

My response: I wish you could explain your above statement with more detail. It appears to contradict what you earlier claimed….


as - - Mat 1:20  Mary - that which is conceived in her is

εκ EX / OUT - - OF

" O U T - O F " the Holy Spirit. 

The Greek word is - εκ - exiting out of...

- as both man and Gods spirit. - in Yahashua.

The Spirit of Yahashua, - his spiritual identity, this was not God's son - this was God himself. - The Holy Spirit. it was the human nature of the SON that was God's son.

The Spiritual nature was God's Holy Spirit himself. - The Anointing / Christ.

In other words - the Spiritual Identity of Yahashua was - ETERNAL LIFE / the Holy Spirit.

Yahashua simply breathed upon you - and you were filled with the Holy Spirit by breathing in his breath.

1Jn 5:11  And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1Jn 5:13  These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jn 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The reason the Son and his followers have the same God is because the Bible says that God MORPHED himself into the MORPH of a man

My response: I do not recall the Bible declaring that “God MORPHED himself into the MORPH of a man” Do you have Scripture that states this to be the case?

and though he judged and AUTHORIZED himself - no SEIZURE nor CAPTURING of the ability to be EQUALLY GOD.

Php 2:6 Yahoshua " who - being IN the form / MORPH of God.
though he judged and AUTHORIZED himself - NO SEIZURE nor CAPTURING of the ability and power to be EQUALLY GOD here on earth - as a human man.

But God literally CHANGED his form - he MORPHED / CHANGED himself and made himself EMPTY of the position and power of God and void of EQUALITY of being God and - made himself into a CHANGED, ALTERED, MODIFIED MORPH of God, manifesting - changing himself as a man and made himself as a servant of God / as a man - here on the earth.

UNTIL his enemies were defeated.

And this is where Trinitarians approach the steps leading to the door and they take one single step and declare they have entered through the door. But there are many steps to get to the door.

This is called Trinitarian " one step theology " they continually never never move beyond step one.

We have seen clearly that Trinitarians completely ignore the original manuscripts, as they go about FOCUSING ONLY upon a special few / select LIMITED list of altered and CHANGED verses.

They had to literally add and delete and alter many words in their translation.

They even left a number of the words in Greek and Italian and completely refused to translate many words over into the English language.

We see again another Trinitarian mistranslation here in Joh 5: verse 18.
Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.

Verse :18 BY THIS THEN MORE SOUGHT HIM, THE JEWS TO KILL, THAT NOT ONLY BREAKING THE SABBATH BUT ALSO THE FATHER IS HIS OWN, SAYING THE GOD EQUALED HIMSELF, MAKING HIM GOD.

This is how the Trinitarian Translators changed the verse.

Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal WITH God.
The word “ with “ was never in the manuscripts, it was added or inserted into the translation.

Joh_5:18 δια By - τουτο THIS - ουν THEN - μαλλον MORE - εζητουν SOUGHT - αυτον HIM - οι THE - ιουδαιοι JEWS - αποκτειναι TO KILL - οτι THAT - ου NOT - μονον ONLY - ελυεν BREAKING - το THE - σαββατον SABBATH - αλλα BUT - και ALSO πατερα THE FATHER - ιδιον - HIS OWN - ελεγεν SAYING - τον THE - θεον GOD - ισον EQUALED - εαυτον - HIMSELF - ποιων MAKING - τω HIM - θεω GOD.


If we simply look at John 5:17 - we find that these manuscripts - all of these Greek manuscripts are worded differently than the English Catholic and Protestant Copy Cat KJV translation.

Here is the way the wording is expressed in all of the Greek Manuscripts.

But the Trinitarian Translation says - Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal WITH God.

However - the word “ WITH “ _ with God _ was never in the manuscripts, it was added or inserted into the translation.

Here is the Greek Manuscripts layout of - John 5:18 - exactly word for word……

δ ι α By - τ ο υ τ ο THIS - ο υ ν THEN - μ α λ λ ο ν MORE - ε ζ η τ ο υ ν SOUGHT - α υ τ ο ν HIM - ο ι THE - ι ο υ δ α ι ο ι JEWS - α π ο κ τ ε ι ν α ι TO KILL - ο τ ι THAT - ο υ NOT - μ ο ν ο ν ONLY - ε λ υ ε ν BREAKING - τ ο THE - σ α β β α τ ο ν SABBATH - α λ λ α BUT - κ α ι ALSO π α τ ε ρ α THE FATHER - ι δ ι ο ν - HIS OWN - ε λ ε γ ε ν SAYING - τ ο ν THE - θ ε ο ν GOD - ι σ ο ν EQUALED - ε α υ τ ο ν - HIMSELF - π ο ι ω ν MAKING - τ ω HIM - θ ε ω GOD.


All of the manuscripts that exist are perfectly identical word for word.


(Greek NT - Apostolic Bible Polyglot ) δια τουτο ουν μαλλον εζητουν αυτον οι Ιουδαιοι αποκτειναι οτι ου μονον ελυε το σαββατον αλλα και πατερα ιδιον ελεγεν τον θεον ισον εαυτον ποιων τω θεω
(Greek NT - New Testament manuscripts ) διὰ τοῦτο οὖν μᾶλλον ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν οἱ ᾿Ιουδαῖοι ἀποκτεῖναι, ὅτι οὐ μόνον ἔλυε τὸ σάββατον, ἀλλὰ καὶ πατέρα ἴδιον ἔλεγε τὸν Θεόν, ἴσον ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν τῷ Θεῷ.
(Greek NT - Byzantine Text) δια τουτο ουν μαλλον εζητουν οι ιουδαιοι αποκτειναι οτι ου μονον ελυεν το σαββατον αλλα και πατερα ιδιον ελεγεν τον θεον ισον εαυτον ποιων τω θεω
(Greek NT - Textus Receptus) δια τουτο ουν μαλλον εζητουν αυτον οι ιουδαιοι αποκτειναι οτι ου μονον ελυεν το σαββατον αλλα και πατερα ιδιον ελεγεν τον θεον ισον εαυτον ποιων τω θεω
(Greek NT - Wescott Hort ) δια τουτο ουν μαλλον εζητουν αυτον οι ιουδαιοι αποκτειναι οτι ου μονον ελυεν το σαββατον αλλα και πατερα ιδιον ελεγεν τον θεον ισον εαυτον ποιων τω θεω.

The Greek word “ with “ was not in the original message to say Yahoshua had made himself equal with God and it is written originally as “ BUT ALSO THE FATHER IS HIS OWN, SAYING GOD EQUALED HIMSELF, MAKING HIM GOD “

G2398 - ἴδιος - idios / id'-ee-os - Meaning = To self, that is, one's own; by implication private or separate: - As - , when they were alone, apart, aside, - thine, your) own (business), private (-ly), proper, severally, their (own).

Yahoshua was not just saying that The father was simply his father but the word “ idios “ is used - Meaning == OWNERSHIP / private, separate belonging. Not just being a son of the father but the Father was literally “ Himself as his own production, his own belonging, ownership - the Father was his personality - belonging to him….. The Father is MY OWNERSHIP Belonging to me personally / MINE -

We see that the Greek word - G2398 - ἴδιος - idios / id'-ee-os - does not mean simply the meaning that God was “ HIS FATHER “ but THE FATHER WAS HIS OWN, as in ownership - belonging alone to him and HIM ALONE. - in this context ……

This is why they wanted to kill him.

Yahashua claimed to be God - not equal with God - this is a Trinitarian deception
in fact he declared his father was greater - because he was go to the Father. -
the throne - back to the Father from where he originated.

Trinitarians attempt to change so much of the bible to push the message to say that the SON is Eternal, Co Eternal, Co Equal and - Co Omnipresent.

While denying the Spiritual Identity that truly had exited out of God's Spirit as God himself.
God - the ONE deity morphed and manifested as a servant and son on earth was to return back again upon the throne - back to the Father - back into God the origin.

My response: Giving you all due credit however, I do in large measure agree with your response regarding the”trinity doctrine” problems.

Thank you for your responses.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #16

Post by Falling Light 101 »

.

I fully understand - that my statements seem to be intended to undermine the doctrine of the Trinity..
Understanding that You - do not perceive the scriptures conclusively indicating that
“ The only and sole reason that Yahashua is called or labeled or existing as a Son - is only and purely because of his humanity and fleshy nature that which God Spirit fully inhabited. “
However, I believe that your premise for doubting my statement is founded upon your environment that orbits only within a “ Strictly, One Step “ Trinitarian theology.
MY RESPONSE from the scriptures, would be to remind your Trinitarian associates that before Yahashua was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born in the womb of a woman / Mary, there was no concept nor existence of a Son Of God whom was conceived by the Holy Spirit.
In other words, in the Old Testament, the idea of God / Yahawha did not exist as the expressed role being a Son whom is also God himself born by the Holy Spirit’s conception that manifested the deity and entity of God himself.
The proof is founded in scriptures - that verify exactly what I stated that
“ The only and sole reason that Yahashua is called or labeled or existing as a Son - is only and purely because of his humanity and fleshy nature that which God Spirit fully inhabited. “

Act 13:33  Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Heb 1:5  For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
My questionable response : Why would you doubt or unknowingly undermine the scripture that say that the Son was not eternally begotten - UN - BEGOTTEN “ b e f o r e “ - THIS DAY - YOU ARE MY SON, THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN / BORN YOU.
If Yahashua the son of God as defined - conceived by the Holy Spirit - did not exist at any time in the Old testament and was not Born or Begotten UNTIL - THIS DAY - THIS DAY, HAVE I BEGOTTEN / BORN YOU.
How would Yahashua exist as the only begotten son of God if he had not been begotten / born until - THIS DAY ? ? ?
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD WAS NOT BEGOTTEN - U N T I L - THIS DAY - THIS DAY, HAVE I BEGOTTEN / BORN YOU
Meaning = He was not begotten, before this specific day………………………………..
Heb 1:6  when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

HAD THE FIRSTBEGOTTEN PREVIOUSLY BEEN INTRODUCED OR BROUGHT INTO THE WORLD ?
Where in the bible do Spirits entities conceive or bear or BIRTH Children ?
Where do spirits have children… ?

I am almost certain that your question orbits around the Popular concept believed by fundamental Trinitarians - that God is a father to the Angels and that the Angels are also Sons of God - therefore this would then give way unto a precedence and primacy to the idea that Jesus existed as a son of God before he was conceived in the earth.
INSTEAD OF EXISTING AS “ THE WORD “ OF THE HOLY SPIRIT “ that was conceived as flesh - and - was this day - born as the son of God - upon this very day.

Because - In Trinitarian One Step Theology - Jesus must be Co Eternal, Co Equal and Co Omnipresent.

My final solution and question to this matter would be . . .

If Yahashua was not begotten BY GOD until “ THIS DAY “ Act 13:33  Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. - this day have I begotten thee.

How could Yahashua exist as the begotten Son Of God before he was begotten upon this day that God has begotten him. – if it is - this day have I begotten thee. ?

The idea or “ THE WORD “ / God - that is planning or preparing and planning with the goal to conceive a FUTURE SON, do these plans of “ THE WORD “ fully automatically, bring to reality the existence of the child the moment “ THE WORD “ has made these plans

Or does the begotten son of God come to exist, only after God / “ THE WORD “ has spoken the Son into existence ?

The Old Testament Prophets did not believe that the Only Son Of God existed in the Old Testament.
WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT OR PURPOSE TO ISAIAH’s PROPHECY OF THE COMING OF A FUTURE SON BORN - WHO’s NAME SHALL BE CALLED FATHER ETERNAL AND MIGHTY GOD.

If this SON already existed ?

Trinitarian One Step Theology is so filled with contradictions and abject and complete abuse of the manuscripts.

NOTICE  WHAT  TRINITARIANS  ARE  LITERALLY  SAYING  - when they invent and insert the fake word Godhead into their translation.
 
Act 17:29  Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 
 :30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 
 
When we get to verse  :30     -  Trinitarians are attempting to lay the claim that before  Jesus  Christ was born    -    THE  GODHEAD  and  TRINITY was an established and well known part of the  Old Testament understanding of God
 
But in the  OT   -   there is no  mentioning of  God in the terminology of  -  the NUMBER  THREE  -  concerning the  three  manifestations of God.
 
This is a lie.
 -  there is no mention how that  "  THE  THREE  ARE  ONE  "
 and there is no mentioning that all of the fullness of the  DIVINITY  OF  GOD literally  dwelling in  a  man conceived and born by God's very spirit.
This is untrue. 
  THIS IS NOT  SOMETHING THAT GOD HAD WINKED  AT  AND  IGNORED , THOSE  DISOBEDIENT  WERE   IGNORING  THE  TRINITY  AND  CONCEPT  OF  THE  GODHEAD. / TRINITY
THIS  IS   A  COMPLETE  UNTRUTH     … … … … …    none of this is ever even mentioned in the  Old Testament.
There is no concept of a  GOD  HEAD  or  a   TRINITY  -  where a man /  human  is on earth  in the  OT  -  who is claiming to be the Father manifested  /  morphed  into flesh expecting worship and praise and recognition  -    as God on earth.
 
God did manifest   “  as  a  man  “    to Joshua, Gideon and Moses  and  Abraham   -  but  none of these prophets and priests and men of God had never mentioned the manifestation of Gods Human nature on earth   -    as something to be worshiped or even recognized and  worshiped   -  nor as the fullness of the Divinity of God in a man  -    expressly  as  a  Trinity  or  Godhead.
This is  a complete lie… …
What Trinitarians are demanding { BY INSERTING AND CHANGING ONE SINGLE WORD } is that   -   God  is claiming that he had allowed  his  O.T.  Prophets, Priests and servants and children to ignore  and  disregard  and reject the teaching that    -   Father, Son, and Holy Spirit existed in three persons in one  GODHEAD / TRINITY
And that in the    O.T.   God  simply winked and turned a blind eye and  permitted  or  ignored his servants to ignore the  Trinity Doctrine and the  GODHEAD.
This is completely absurd. - This is the orbit of the Trinitarian thought process that is nothing but a circle of contradictions and alterations and changes to the manuscript message.
 
Act 17:29  Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead / TRINITY is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 
 
 :30  And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repen
 
In other words  -   The  GODHEAD  and  the  TRINITY  has always been there, always  something that everyone in the  Old  Testament clearly knew about -  but  now  suddenly mankind must   REPENT  for  ignoring the  GODHEAD  -  reality    -  that the  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit existed in three persons in one  GODHEAD.
 
This not only proves beyond any doubt that   St. Paul was not  attempting  to  preach  the  Trinity  and  the  GODHEAD  to these Greek  Pagans.    THIS  PROVES   -  that Paul was speaking  of  the  DIVINITY  of  God
NOT  THE  DOCTRINE  OF  THE  GODHEAD - GODHEAD DOES NOT EXIST IN THE MANUSCRIPTS
This word was invented and added and changed from the word = divinity.
 
This is exactly why the  OLD  LATIN  VULGATE  -  the Catholic Bible Translation from the  3 th  Century  uses the word   DIVINITY   and  not   GODHEAD  in   -  Act 17:29 /
Trinitarians   invented  the  word   “ Godhead”  about  1200  years  after  Jesus Christ  was  born
The  GODHEAD  LITERALLY  MEANS    -  The Trinity, in Christian doctrine of Jesus Christ as  -  the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

And yet Trinitarians have  Paul  trying to teach the Greek pagans the  Trinity and   Godhead
  where Paul is here trying to  convince the Greek  Pagans that God has always expected all mankind to worship God as a  Trinity and as a  Godhead  and  now  SUDDENLY    God is demanding that mankind expected to  SUDDENLY  repent for  rejecting the  GODHEAD  Doctrine   ?       ?
But there is no  Godhead anywhere in the Old Testament    -  yet  the  ONLY  -  ONLY   Trinitarian rationale and purpose and cause for changing the word DEITY and inserting the  word  Godhead  into the Translation was to insert and propaganda the Trinity doctrine.
Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. 
Yet Paul is preaching to Pagans in Greece who know absolutely nothing about anything concerning Paul’ s faith    -   and  these Pagans   -  they even think  or believe that Paul is a Pagan just like them   -  and Paul directly suddenly jumps right into the Doctrine of the  Godhead  and  the  Trinity.
Then Paul  tells  them   -   -   That the  GODHEAD  and  the  TRINITY  has always been something that everyone in the  Old  Testament clearly knew about -  but  God winked and turned a blind eye to those rejecting the  Godhead  Doctrine  -    now  suddenly mankind must   REPENT   -  repent now  for  ignoring the  GODHEAD  -     -  that the  Father, Son, and Holy Spirit existed in three separate CO Equal - Co Eternal - Co Omnipresent SEPARATE persons in one  GODHEAD.
In other words the  Old Testament Prophets and Priests and  Hebrew men and women were expected to accept the Trinity and  Jesus Christ is  another  Person  in a  Trinity  with a  Godhead  - as  a  CO  EQUAL  -  CO  ETERNAL  divine  separate person of God.


In conclusion - I would like to ask you to please show me - where in the manuscripts is the word “ MORPH “ in the manuscripts - describing
Yahashua’s identity as - existing in the MORPH of God.
This is truly exactly what the manuscripts say
- but if you are unwilling to find this for yourself - what good would it do for me to show you the exact passage in the manuscript. ? I would be happy to show you the manuscripts describing Yahashua’s identity as - existing in the MORPH of God, however, I have already moved far, far beyond the One Step Theology of the Trinitarian Theological orbit - I fear that taking just one more step would bring reality out of focus, to the point that just moving beyond a single step . . .

. . . the Trinitarian orbit could not excrete the facts already proven.

Trusting in Father and King James and his Jesuit Roman Catholic Copy Cat - KJV Permit Bible Translation - will only explore what Father James has permitted you to find.

The Trinitarians of England had not broken away from the Trinitarian Roman Catholic Church no more than 80 years until the time that they produced their Trinitarian Bible Translation, this is just one single generation that had passed from the time that the Protestant Trinitarian daughter of England had broken away from their Roman Catholic mother, until the time that father King James produced the KJV Bible Permit. / Permit Bible.

I exhort my Trinitarian friends to trust in the original manuscripts and leave behind the Government Authorized Bible Permit.

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #17

Post by Falling Light 101 »

.
We also find that Act 17:29  is also mistranslated

Here is the exact word for word translation from the original manuscripts.

:29      -    γενος   The offspring   -    ουν  therefore    -    υπαρχοντες  who are,   -    του   of    -     Θεου   God - ουκ   not   -    οφειλομεν   should    -    νομιζειν   regard    -    χρυσω   gold    -    η   or    -    αργυρω   silver    -    η   or –
λιθω   stones    -    χαραγματι   engraved    -    τεχνης   crafts    -    και   and     -    ενθυμησεως   the thoughts    -    ανθρωπου   of man    -   
  το   the    -    θειον   brimstone -      ειναι   are    -    ομοιον   the same.


please take a look at in context, what is happening in this passage ?

Please take a look at this example of what Brimstones Paul is referring to in the passage of Act 17:29   

this is a link that displays the example. gemstones brimstones - Google Search

Paul is speaking to a crowd of pagans and Paul is describing how that their entire city - the city wholly given to idolatry.

He is being accused of also being a pagan himself, people are accusing Paul himself of being " a setter forth of strange gods "

Paul believes, they are too superstitious and tells them that he has found this inscription upon their altar
“””” , TO THE UNKNOWN GOD , “””” Whom therefore they ignorantly worship.

The mentioning of Brimstone / Sulfur is made because the Pagans would make their Idols, Images, ornaments and altars with refined Brimstone and decorate their idols. This Brimstone has a shinny, reflective glimmer that is attractive. Brimstone polished stone are adored because Pagans believe they are stones of energy with a spiritual energy field. Brimstone has been used by South American and Mexican Indians in their healing ceremonies. North American Indians also use it in ceremonies.

In the Bible the Priests would place brimstones or GEM - STONES into their breastplates to honor god
Exo 28:15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment :17 stones, sardius, topaz, and a carbuncle emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond, ligure, agate, amethyst. beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper.

All of these stones are produced by Sulfur / Brimstone that is found in the earth, When The sulfur / Brimstone reacts under pressure under the earth at elevated temperatures - a texture of a two-dimensional array is in the rock when they cool. Meaning the shiny attractive two dimensional shine finish layer on idols and rocks.

Sulfur itself can also form as a mineral as an orthorhombic crystal - Sulfur: The mineral native Sulfur information and pictures

Please notice the very last word { ομοιον } at the very ending of this verse

εγενος - ουν - υπαρχοντες - του - Θεου - ουκ - οφειλομεν - νομιζειν - χρυσω - η - αργυρω - η - λιθω - χαραγματι - τεχνης - και - ενθυμησεως - ανθρωπου - το - θειον - ειναι ομοιον

this is the Greek word " ομοιον " meaning = the same / similar / in like manner.

What the Trinitarian Translation does, is take the very last three words -  Theon are Homoios
= θειον - ειναι - ομοιον

Meaning the Brimstones are the same / similar - like unto

Act 17:29    -    γενος   The offspring   -    ουν  therefore    -    υπαρχοντες  who are,   -    του   of    -    Θεου   God - ουκ   not   -    οφειλομεν   should    -    νομιζειν   regard    -    χρυσω   gold    -    η   or    -    αργυρω   silver    -    η   or –
λιθω   stones    -    χαραγματι   engraved    -    τεχνης   crafts    -    και   and    -    ενθυμησεως   the thoughts    -    ανθρωπου   of man    -   
  το   the    -    θειον   brimstone -      ειναι   are    -    ομοιον   the same ..... -

King James - Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the  Godhead is like  gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's  device


Also, the translators move these last three words from the very ending of the verse and place them near the middle of the verse, pulling these words back to change their origon of meaning as if - relating to God, instead of where they are in the manuscripts at the very ending of the verse - as they are relating to the - gold, silver, stones and, graven arts.

Paul concluded, saying that all of the Sulfur, Brimstones decorations were also included in the things that man use to worship false gods with - instead of worshiping the living God.

Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the  Godhead is like  gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device{ }

In the manuscripts, these last three words in  red  are at the very end of the verse telling about the similarity of the Brimstone - to the STONES, IDOLS, and crafts of GRAVEN IMAGES, they are the very last three words in the verse. - in the manuscripts - and the Greek word θειον is  =  brimstone, - not Godhead.

Also, the very last word device  ενθυμησεως - simply means the thoughts or the word thought or to think - this word has nothing to do with the definition of an object or - device or a contraption or a  gadget  or some type of gizmo.

this word that the translators are changing into the word  device / ενθυμησεως

Simply means to think / ones thoughts or imagination - THOUGHTS

used in - Act 10:19 Peter  thought  / ενθυμησεως on the vision
Mat 9:4 Jesus knowing their  thoughts / ενθυμησεως
Mat 1:20 he  thought  / ενθυμησεως  on these things
Heb 4:12 a discerner of the  thoughts / ενθυμησεως

Completely re- inventing and changing the meaning of words - if you look up this word today “ ενθυμησεως “ in the Greek dictionary, it simply means to think or remember, not the idea of mans devices or contraptions or mans gadgets or gizmo or a device, object or production of materialistic matter.

Here, Paul is not even mentioning Jesus Christ or the Deity of Christ, or the Trinity or anything at all to do with the Godhead. These are pagans all around him, they have no idea about the massive amount of doctrine, theology and teaching that is put forth in the Trinity Doctrine or the explanations of the Godhead. Paul is addressing a city of pagans and telling what he is seeing in their idolatry - he is not trying to teach them the Godhead / Trinity.

We even find that the word Godhead was falsely inserted into the translation multiple times in other verses.


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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #18

Post by Falling Light 101 »

.

We find in the manuscripts that God has Manifested or “ Morphed “ himself in many, many various and divers manners.

We can understand the message of Hebrews Chapter Chapter 1:

How that - God has Manifested or Morphed himself in many, many various and different manners. - many, many ways

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 

:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 

:3  Yahashua } ……. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his CONFIDENCE

Please remember - the word Person - is never used in the manuscripts to describe God nor his Son. This is a Trinitarian deception. Yahashua is not the Image of the fathers “ Person “ - in the manuscripts.
This Greek word means confidence

The Bible clarifies that the Son Of God is another one of the many, many diverse manners - ONE OF THE MANY, MANY WAYS - in which God has previously manifested or MORPHED himself – revealing / manifesting himself to mankind.
However, in these last days he has spoken unto us - by Son,

Php 2:6 - explains exactly the identity of The Son Of God - Yahashua is described as being - IN THE - morphē _ morph of God


" who - being IN the form /  MORPH μορφή  of God, - though he judged and AUTHORIZED himself - NO SEIZURE nor CAPTURING of the ability and power to be EQUALLY GOD here on earth - as a human man / servant/

́ Php 2:6  Who, being in the μορφή - morphē _ morph of God, judged not taking existence equally God: 

:7  But receiving himself   EMPTY  /  VOID  and receiving upon him the   μορφή - morphē _ morph   of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: 

In Php 2:6 - 7 the Greek word / MORPH - μορφή - morphē _ morph is expressly used in the manuscripts to explain exactly who Yahashua is - in his relationship with God - and as existing as - the MORPH of the Father.

Again, in Mar 16:12  the same exact Greek word / MORPH - μορφή - morphē _ morph is used.

:12  After the { Resurrection } he appeared in another μορφή - morphē _ morph unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 

μορφή - morphē _ morph / mor-fay' - Meaning = through the idea of adjustment of parts); shape; - form / morph.

Yahashua existed on earth - IN - the morph of God - and after he raised himself from the dead Yahashua again changed his appearance and appeared in another μορφή - morphē _ morph unto two believers, as they walked, and went into the country. 
And then he - again - changed back into his original μορφή - morphē _ morph at the end of their journey - as they sat down together to eat a meal - and then disappeared / vanished before their eyes .

The Greek word μορφή - morphē _ morph is also used in the following passages in the Original Manuscripts.

Rom 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed / συμμορφός - sum morph os to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 
Php 3:21  Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned / συμμορφός - sum morph os like unto his glorious body.

συμμορφός - sum morph os / soom-mor-fos' - Meaning = jointly formed, similarly : - conformed to, fashioned like unto.

Rom 2:20  An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the μόρφωσις - morph of knowledge and of the truth in the law. 

2Ti 3:5  Having a μόρφωσις - morph of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 

μόρφωσις - morph ōsis / mor'-fo-sis - Meaning = formation, that is, in appearance (semblance or [concretely] formula / method or prescription ): - form / morph.

Gal 4:19  My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be μορφή - morph ē in you, 

μορφή - morph ē / mor-fay' Meaning = (through the idea of adjustment of parts); shape; figuratively nature: - form / morph.

When we have a Translation that conceals and hides and literally deletes and removes the meaning of many, many Greek word in their context and meaning - the context is removed from the surrounding body of the translated document and rendered into another message and an entirely different teaching and doctrine.
The Greek word -
μορφή morph is exactly the description how that God has previously Manifested or “ Morphed “ himself in many, many various and divers manners.
And Hath in these last days spoken unto us by Son - in the - μορφή morph of God - the morph,

receiving himself   EMPTY  /  VOID  and receiving upon him the   μορφή - morphē _ morph   of a servant, and was made in the likeness of man: 

AUTHORIZING himself - NO SEIZURE nor CAPTURING of the ability and power to be EQUALLY GOD .

My friends - Yahashua never, ever thought that it was not robbery to be equal with God, this is Trinitarian Propaganda intended to alter the original manuscript. - every word he spoke declared that the Father was greater than him - why ? -
why ? why was the father greater ? - because he will go back to the Father from where his morph / Spirit came out and exited out from.

Yahashua, the anointing = Holy Spirit, morphed into flesh.

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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #19

Post by Falling Light 101 »

Why would the Trinitarian Jesus have to change and alter and transform himself into something he already was previously ?

Meaning - if Yahashua already existed as a LOWER servant of God, as a lower form and subservient and submissive lesser person of God in a Trinity Godhead

Why is he seen here - changing and lowering and emptying himself to be what Trinitarians demand that he already was ?

The main question that I seem to have difficulty having answered by Trinitarians

If Trinitarians could explain concerning their translation,

how or why Yahoshua would have to LOWER Himself and take on the role or morph or form of a MAN and LOWER HIMSELF to become - a servant of God –

IF THAT was what or who he already was and always will be ?

If Yahashua was always “ AT “ the right HAND of God, where did he exist before he was located / or placed to be there and where will he exist after his purpose this completed

IF - The Bible says He is to sit / dwell - “ IN “ the right or “ AT “ the right hand of God - UNTIL - UNTIL such and such a time. = Dwell here - UNTIL - this time comes.

or

If he was to be there ‘ until ‘ such a such and such a time, this means he was not always there.

And after such and such a time passes - where will he again return regarding his original place ?

I honestly just do not see how Trinitarians can answer this question and I have never received an answer from anyone who holds to the Trinity faith.

If Yahoshua was always “ AT “ the right HAND of God, - where did he exist before he was located / or placed to be there and where will he exist after his purpose this completed

IF - the Bible says - He is to sit / there - UNTIL - UNTIL such and such a time. = Dwell here - UNTIL - this time comes, where will he go*? ? ? ?

We see that - In John Chapter 8: - The bible clearly explains exactly who Yahoshua is …

Yahoshua says three things here about his identity.

i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - OF MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -

John 8:42
i COME OUT FROM THE GOD -
i COME NOT ALSO FROM - OF MYSELF -
i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -

-*εγω*I AM**- *γαρ*FOR*- **εκ*FROM*- **του*THE*- **θεου*GOD*- **εξηλθον*CAME OUT*-

και*ALSO*- **ηκω*COME*- **ουδε*NOT*- **γαρ*ALSO*- **απ*OF*- **εμαυτου*MYSELF*- **εληλυθα*I*COME*-

αλλ*NEITHER*- **εκεινος*MYSELF*- **με*I*- **απεστειλεν*SENT.


But truly the Trinity is completely in contradiction to me BECAUSE Yahoshua defines the terms in His message - by saying that He does nothing of His own self - saying that I can do nothing whatsoever of my own doing. - I do not have any power of miracles, of my own " I do not have a will of my own - I CANNOT DO anything, whatsoever - OF MY OWN*... Saying that it is the father only, that does the miracles and the works.

Clearly, here *he was not a distinct separated part of God, nor of a trinity in a partnership as a second PERSON of a triune*CO EQUAL* = *CO ETERNAL**GODHEAD.


- Yahoshua says three things here about his identity.

I COME OUT FROM THE GOD -

I COME NOT ALSO FROM - OFF OF / OUT OF MYSELF*-

i COME NEITHER MYSELF I - SENT -

Meaning - Yahoshua was not a mere “ departing exiting FORM “ nor MORPH **of his OWN pre - existence.*- -

Nor even a departed FORM or MORPH of his own self " himself. " as a separate pre-existing person.

So basically I have *two *questions that I ask of Trinitarians.


1. *

*THE ONLY QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR TRINITARIANS - IS SIMPLY THIS.

If Yahashua was always “ AT “ the right HAND of God, where did he exist before he was located / or placed to be there and where will he exist after his purpose this completed

IF - The Bible says He is to sit / dwell - “ IN “ the right or “ AT “ the right hand of God - UNTIL - UNTIL such and such a time. = Dwell here - UNTIL - this time comes.

or

If he was to be there ‘ until ‘ such a such and such a time, this means he was not always there.

And after such and such a time passes - where will he again return regarding his original place ?

I honestly just do not see how Trinitarians can answer this question and I have never received an answer from anyone who holds to the Trinity faith.

If Yahoshua was always “ AT “ the right HAND of God, - where did he exist before he was located / or placed to be there and where will he exist after his purpose this completed

IF - the Bible says - He is to sit / there - UNTIL - UNTIL such and such a time. = Dwell here - UNTIL - this time comes, where will he go*? ? ? ?


and * 2. the second question....

If Trinitarians could explain concerning their translation,

how or why Yahoshua would have to LOWER Himself and take on the role or morph or form of a MAN and LOWER HIMSELF to become - a servant of God –

IF THAT was what or who he already was and always will be ?

if Yahashua already eternally existed as a LOWER servant of God, as a lower form and subservient and submissive lesser person of God in a Trinity Godhead

Why is he seen here - changing and lowering and emptying himself to be what Trinitarians demand that he already was ?

Yahashua came to earth and lowered himself - emptied himself - he CHANGED and ALTERED HIMSELF BECOMING A SERVANT OF GOD

WHY - would he be lowering himself - why would he be ALTERING AND CHANGING HIMSELF TO BE CHANGED INTO A SERVANT OF GOD AND LESSER THAN GOD - If this is who and what he already was ?

Trinity is a complete contradiction.




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Re: Is Jesus God the Son, or is he the Son of God?

Post #20

Post by Checkpoint »

[Replying to Falling Light 101 in post #19]
Yahashua came to earth and lowered himself - emptied himself - he CHANGED and ALTERED HIMSELF BECOMING A SERVANT OF GOD

WHY - would he be lowering himself - why would he be ALTERING AND CHANGING HIMSELF TO BE CHANGED INTO A SERVANT OF GOD AND LESSER THAN GOD - If this is who and what he already was ?
He already was? Who claims that?
Yahashua came to earth and lowered himself - emptied himself - he CHANGED and ALTERED HIMSELF BECOMING A SERVANT OF GOD

WHY - would he be lowering himself - why would he be ALTERING AND CHANGING HIMSELF TO BE CHANGED INTO A SERVANT OF GOD AND LESSER THAN GOD - If this is who and what he already was ?
I am not Trinitarian, but it appears you do need to read and study Philippians 2:5-11 before writing more.

Trinity is a complete contradiction.
Yeah, some say so - tell me about it sometime.

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