Original Sin

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Miles
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Original Sin

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Post by Miles »

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"Original sin is the Christian doctrine that humans inherit a tainted nature and a proclivity to sin through the fact of birth. Theologians have characterized this condition in many ways, seeing it as ranging from something as insignificant as a slight deficiency, or a tendency toward sin yet without collective guilt, referred to as a "sin nature", to total depravity or automatic guilt of all humans through collective guilt.

The doctrine of original sin began to emerge in the 3rd century but only became fully formed with the writings of Augustine of Hippo (354–430), who was the first author to use the phrase "original sin" (Latin: peccatum originale). Augustine's conception of original sin was based on a mistranslated passage in Paul the Apostle's Epistle to the Romans, and scholars have debated whether the passage supports Augustine's view.

Augustine's formulation of original sin became popular among Protestant reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated original sin with concupiscence (or "hurtful desire"), affirming that it persisted even after baptism and completely destroyed freedom to do good and proposed that original sin involved a loss of free will except to sin.


Roman Catholicism
Catholic veiw: "Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.
By his sin Adam, as the first man, lost the original holiness and justice he had received from God, not only for himself but for all humans.
Adam and Eve transmitted to their descendants human nature wounded by their own first sin and hence deprived of original holiness and justice; this deprivation is called "original sin". As a result of original sin, human nature is weakened in its powers, subject to ignorance, suffering and the domination of death, and inclined to sin (this inclination is called "concupiscence")


Lutheranism
The Lutheran Churches teach that original sin "is a root and fountain-head of all actual sins.
Martin Luther (1483–1546) asserted that humans inherit Adamic guilt and are in a state of sin from the moment of conception.


Jehovah's Witnesses
The consequences of the Fall spread to the whole of the human race . This is elucidated by St Paul: ‘Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin , and so death spread to all men because all men sinned’ (Rom.5:12).
This text, which formed the Church’s basis of her teaching on ‘ original sin ’, may be understood in a number of ways: the Greek words ef’ ho pantes hemarton may be translated not only as ‘because all men sinned’ but also ‘in whom [that is, in Adam] all men sinned’. Different readings of the text may produce different understandings of what ‘ original sin ’ means.
source


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
(Mormon)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) rejects the doctrine of original sin.

Methodism

Methodist theology teaches that a believer is made free from original sin when he/she is entirely sanctified.
(["entirely sanctified" or] Christian perfection is the name given to various teachings within Christianity that describe the process of achieving spiritual maturity or perfection. The ultimate goal of this process is union with God characterized by pure love of God and other people as well as personal holiness or sanctification.
source

Eastern Christianity
The Eastern Orthodox and Byzantine Rite Eastern Catholic Churches' version of original sin is the view that sin originates with the Devil, "for the devil sins from the beginning (1 John iii. 8)".[74] The Eastern Church never subscribed to Augustine of Hippo's notions of original sin and hereditary guilt. The Church does not interpret "original sin" as having anything to do with transmitted guilt but with transmitted mortality. Because Adam sinned, all humanity shares not in his guilt but in the same punishment .
source unless otherwise indicated


So, what do think of original sin; a third century Christian doctrine created to invest salvation with greater significance, a concept of questionable value, or concocted hogwash?


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Miles
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Re: Original Sin

Post #141

Post by Miles »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:18 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:39 pm One question: Did Jesus come down and judge you to be a true Christian, JW?
Would you like to know what I believe on this question?
No, I'm not interested in what you believe but in what you claim. So, let 'er rip: Did Jesus come down and judge you to be a true Christian?


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Re: Original Sin

Post #142

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Miles wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:33 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:18 pm
Miles wrote: Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:39 pm One question: Did Jesus come down and judge you to be a true Christian, JW?
Would you like to know what I believe on this question?
No, I'm not interested in what you believe but in what you claim.

Well I can only claim to believe what I do on the question. If you are uninterested in that I have no answer for you.

Sorry

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Re: Original Sin

Post #143

Post by help3434 »

John Bauer wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 am
help3434 wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:13 am
The USA as a nation state, a political entity, is, not invidual citizens within it, unlike your "each and every one of us is born a sinner".
I find it interesting that you didn't answer the question—but also terribly inconvenient because now I have to guess at what your answer would have been and you can reply, "That's not what I think," and I will have wasted my time.
You quote my answer to your question, then say I didn't answer your question. I don't even know what to say.
John Bauer wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 am If the actions of the president of the USA breaks the terms of a treaty, then the country itself is liable for breaking the treaty—even though it was the specific actions of the individual president that broke the terms of the treaty. To say that the country is liable "for what it didn't do" is mistaken, for if "the president did it" then "the country did it" (cf. federal headship).
Right, but they can't drag Joe Scmo from Florida to the Hague for breaking international law just because he is a citizen of the liable country.

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Re: Original Sin

Post #144

Post by John Bauer »

help3434 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:50 am
They can't drag Joe Scmo from Florida to the Hague for breaking international law just because he is a citizen of the liable country.
How does that map to the issue of Adam? Are you under the impression that Joe will be condemned for having eaten of the forbidden tree?

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Re: Original Sin

Post #145

Post by 2timothy316 »

help3434 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:50 am
John Bauer wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 am If the actions of the president of the USA breaks the terms of a treaty, then the country itself is liable for breaking the treaty—even though it was the specific actions of the individual president that broke the terms of the treaty. To say that the country is liable "for what it didn't do" is mistaken, for if "the president did it" then "the country did it" (cf. federal headship).
Right, but they can't drag Joe Scmo from Florida to the Hague for breaking international law just because he is a citizen of the liable country.
And if Joe Schmo voted for that president to ensure the US broke that treaty?

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Re: Original Sin

Post #146

Post by Tcg »

2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:14 pm
help3434 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:50 am
Right, but they can't drag Joe Scmo from Florida to the Hague for breaking international law just because he is a citizen of the liable country.
And if Joe Schmo voted for that president to ensure the US broke that treaty?
Applying this question to the claimed reality it is suppose to support, which of us voted for Adam to ensure he'd eat the forbidden fruit?


Tcg
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Re: Original Sin

Post #147

Post by 2timothy316 »

Tcg wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:37 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:14 pm
help3434 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:50 am
Right, but they can't drag Joe Scmo from Florida to the Hague for breaking international law just because he is a citizen of the liable country.
And if Joe Schmo voted for that president to ensure the US broke that treaty?
Applying this question to the claimed reality it is suppose to support, which of us voted for Adam to ensure he'd eat the forbidden fruit?


Tcg
We didn't vote for Adam to eat the fruit. But neither did Joe Schmo's kids, his grand-kids, etc. they are going to have to deal with the consequences of Joe Schmo's vote and the actions of president he voted for.

This is where we are today. The sin has been past on. But we have something that Joe Schmo's kids don't have. A person that has taken on the full consequences of the bad choice. Nullifying it completely.

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