Making False Images of The Creator

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William
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Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by William »

From the thread The Three Biblical Interpretations About Afterlife
William wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 4:11 pm
onewithhim wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 3:21 pm Where would anyone get the idea that God "breathed himself into people?" He is too great and magnificent to be reduced to being inside any human being. If anyone thinks differently, they have a very skewed view of the Creator of this universe.
That is The Great Paradox which humans have been debating since the invention of theism...

...what does "One With Him" actually mean?

And both ideas [{a}We are are separate from The Creator or {b} We are particles of The Creators Consciousness] have their own rational and appear logical to that end[answering said question].
The only difference of significance is that {a} "We are are separate from The Creator" cannot accommodate {b} ["We are particles of The Creators Consciousness"], whereas realization of {b} still accommodates {a} in the sense that {a} is regarded as [usually] the initial step one has to take in order to then - perhaps - realize {b}.

...what does "One With Him" actually mean? According to {a} it means?
It means positions [1]&[2] are rational if thought so by those who believe they are {a} "Separate from The Creator" as they have decided to bow to that belief as "The Whole Truth".

...what does "One With Him" actually mean? According to {b} it means?
It means positions [1]&[2] are based upon part truth rather than whole truth if thought so by those who believe they are {b} "We are particles of The Creators Consciousness" as they have decided to realize the significance of such a thought as being that much closer to "The Whole Truth" than {a} [1]&[2] could ever be...the realization particularly being that there is more to the overall story than meets the eye.

Problematic with those in position {a} [positions [1]&[2]] are evident in the behaviors of those who support said positions in relation to this current reality experience [Life on Earth] - perhaps because they actively resist realization of {b} on the assumption that they "could not possible behave as if they were {b}" so at best, settle for {a} as it is [at least] a starting position for a potential future moment of realization...

...when the individual is sufficiently ready for the transformation of their understanding.

Meantime, information is continuing to come, which has the potential to assist the individual with said transformation...
The image of The Creator that most Christians have adopted is one which couldn't possibly stoop to "being human" [as in the comment "Where would anyone get the idea that God "breathed himself into people?"] because the image held by the questioner is that The Creator "is too great and magnificent to be reduced to being inside any human being." and follows that, with the unsupported assertion that "If anyone thinks differently, they have a very skewed view of the Creator of this universe."

Why should one think that a being who created this universe must be vainglorious and so utterly contemptuous of the creation [specifically the human form] that said Creator would assign other - separate - consciousnesses [beings] into human form It considers somehow unworthy of Its self experiencing?
So we have an image of a kind of mad scientist mucking with things he has little to no understanding of, just to lord it over "them".

I do not see in the creation any such hint of such an image of The Creator.

What I do see is human fabrication - how most humans might behave if they were in similar position as The Creator - a false image [graven] which is created and worshiped by humans who cannot [will not?] accept that any Creator would lower Itself ["Himself" as Christians would say] so much as to be "a little lower than the angels" as the mythology has it imagined.

How indeed does the Creator create Life outside of Itself, and then deem that Life to be "less than" - even if it was created that way - where is the life The Creator used to animate the creation with being sourced, if NOT from The Creator itself?

Such as, logically this [sourcing Life elsewhere] is an unnecessary edition which is placed into the human psyche as a means of attempting to hold fast and high and almighty false image in such minds...enthroned as it is upon the imaginations of all those who believe such.

Image

The catch phrase "We are not worthy" is a significant mantra in its ability to help the individual to resist realization that they are a particle of The Creators Consciousness.

Could this type of expression be happening because the images Christians have created of The Creator are false [therefore 'skewed'] and as such, not a trustworthy source in which to find a wholesome representation of "The Creator of This Universe"?

Q: Given the above, how can any image of The Creator of The Universe be a True Image?
Last edited by William on Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by Diagoras »

How do we know God?

Is that the question?

I couldn’t see in your post any single question that sufficiently stood out to establish a focus for debate, sorry.

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by William »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:12 pmHow do we know God?

Is that the question?

I couldn’t see in your post any single question that sufficiently stood out to establish a focus for debate, sorry.
I edited the OP to bundle the overall critique into one question;

Q: Given the above, how can any image of The Creator of The Universe be a True Image?

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by Diagoras »

:approve:

Much clearer now, thanks!

But very difficult to answer. :(

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 5:09 pm
The image of The Creator that most Christians have adopted is one which couldn't possibly stoop to "being human"...The Creator "is too great and magnificent to be reduced to being inside any human being." ...

Q: Given the above, how can any image of The Creator of The Universe be a True Image?

What do you mean by "a true image"? The God of the bible YHWH /Jehovah is not human. That said He himself employs metaphor to help humans understand his nature and qualities. He speaks of his "eyes" to convey the idea he intelligently observes activities. His "arm" to convey the idea of his strength and influence ... all these word pictures (or images) can be true in the sense that, if not taken literally, the accurately convey truthful information about his person.


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:29 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

William wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 5:09 pm The Creator "is too great and magnificent to be reduced to being inside any human being."

Yes biblically that is true. JEHOVAH is never depicted as residing inside a human(s).

ISAIAH 66:1, 2

This is what Jehovah says:“The heavens are my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where, then, is the house that you could build for me and where is my resting-place?” “My own hand has made all these things, And this is how they all came to be,” declares Jehovah.




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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by Difflugia »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:03 amWhat do you mean by "a true image"? The God of the bible YHWH /Jehovah is not human. That said He himself employs metaphor to help humans understand his nature and qualities. He speaks of his "eyes" to convey the idea he intelligently observes activities. His "arm" to convey the idea of his strength and influence ... all these word pictures (or images) can be true in the sense that, if not taken literally, the accurately convey truthful information about his person.
How does one determine this? Genesis 3:8 reads:
Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden.
Can Yahweh literally walk in a garden in the cool of the day? Does he literally have a face to hide from?

Is there anything about the text that indicates this is metaphorical or does one just have to already know that Yahweh doesn't have physical legs or a physical face? What elevates your statement to anything beyond unsupported assertion? How can you show that you're not reading your own mistaken idea back into the text?
My pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

Post #8

Post by PinSeeker »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:09 am JEHOVAH is never depicted as residing inside a human(s).
Oh, but He is:

"Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in Him, Who is the head of all rule and authority."

Now, was Jehovah there in the Garden in bodily form as seemingly described in Genesis 3:8. Some believe yes, some do not. In the end, it matters not what His actual form was, but what He did, especially issuing judgment upon humanity and even creation itself, but then closely following that, His promise of a future Redeemer.

Grace and peace to all.

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

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Post by JehovahsWitness »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:43 am
What elevates your statement to anything beyond unsupported assertion? How can you show that you're not reading your own mistaken idea back into the text?
Biblical interpretation is always going to be a matter of opinion. Jehovahs Witnesses claim nothing more.

That said we believe our conclusions are guided by the content and not tradition or personal preferences. This is because we have the rather unusual approach of taking the bible as a whole. This means if one portion is ambiguous or inconclusive, we will settle on the interpretation that best harmonizes with another relevant portions, even if these passages was written thousands of years later/earlier.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Making False Images of The Creator

Post #10

Post by 2timothy316 »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:05 pm
Difflugia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:43 am
What elevates your statement to anything beyond unsupported assertion? How can you show that you're not reading your own mistaken idea back into the text?
Biblical interpretation is always going to be a matter of opinion. Jehovahs Witnesses claim nothing more.

That said we believe our conclusions are guided by the content and not tradition or personal preferences. This is because we have the rather unusual approach of taking the bible as a whole. This means if one portion is ambiguous or inconclusive, we will settle on the interpretation that best harmonizes with another relevant portions, even if these passages was written thousands of years later/earlier.
The best way to describe this is to take the following example.

Let's say that you were left on a road in place that you are not familiar with and you need to get home or find some help. Fortunately you do have your phone though and it has a map app on it. When you open the app it's zoomed way in on your location. It tells you the street you are on but not much else. It is only when you zoom out to gain more information can you tell what streets are around you. Yet still it's not making sense where you are so you can determine where you need to go. So you zoom further out. Now you can see the city you're in. You zoom further out so see what state and realize you're not even in your state. However, thanks to your app you have gathered enough information that you now know how to get to your destination.

The Bible is the map app. To get clarity, you gather more information by reading more of it. Finding scriptures that harmonize or tie in with the scripture you're reading. The more information you take in of the Bible the better the understanding of any verse. Focusing on a single verse and then trying to figure out what it's trying to say is not going to help much. No more than looking at a map app on your phone and zooming all the way in to your street and trying to find your way home.

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