What Does The Bible Say About Elective Abortion?

[Miles]

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I ask because I can't find a darn thing. And if it isn't addressed in the Bible how important can it be?

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[Difflugia]

Because you said,

It doesn't give them a pass from "judgement"...

I also explained after your ellipsis exactly what I meant. Do you know what "quote mining" is?

[2timothy316]

Because you said,

It doesn't give them a pass from "judgement"...

I also explained after your ellipsis exactly what I meant. Do you know what "quote mining" is?

So lets be clear now. Give me a yes or no. I don't want anything extra. Black or white answer only. Saying one thing but not meaning it the next is deceitful. State clearly what you mean. (Matthew 5:37)

According to the Bible can a person be put to death for unintentionally killing an unborn baby due to being reckless? yes or no

[Difflugia]

According to the Bible can a person be put to death for unintentionally killing an unborn baby due to being reckless? yes or no

No.

[PinSeeker]

Yes, they do.

No, we just both accept those verses for what they are, and you apparently do not. So be it.

Is there more to your argument than that you just somehow know?

2timothy316 and I disagree on several things, for sure, but this is not one of them. I have presented my position -- and so has 2timothy316, by the way -- very objectively. That you don't think so (or don't want to acknowledge such) is your own affair and doesn't concern me.

Unless God is not responsible for the formation of chicks in their eggs or dandelions in their seeds, you haven't established that fetal children can biblically be subject to homicide.

God is responsible for all life. And, all of life can be subject to homicide.

I'm concerned that you and I aren't even using English the same way. In the English I'm familiar with, "homicide" only applies to human beings.

Please forgive me for not specifying all of human life and homicide of human beings. But since homicide and human beings have been the sole focus of our exchange, I thought that unnecessary -- which it was; you seem to be groping for ways to discredit me (and everyone else who doesn't agree with you) now. Again, so be it. Not very graceful (at all), but so be it.

Even many courts today have ruled that murder was committed upon the unborn child of a "harmed" woman.

Modern courts also consider bats to be mammals, not birds.

Ah, doubling down on your own misguided "point." Again, regarding the Bible, the Hebrew word we render 'birds' means simply "owner of a wing", the word being 'owph, which comes from a root word which means to cover or to fly. The category of 'owph includes birds, bats, and certain insects. That was true then, and it is true now. Linnaean classification, while very useful, has no relevance.

The point that I'm "doubling down" on is that Hebrew words don't always have the same meaning as a Western understanding of the corresponding English term.

Well that's totally irrelevant. The Hebrew word means "owner of a wing." Birds and bats both "own wings," regardless of taxonomy. To try to fabricate some unresolvable conflict and thus insinuate any kind of disharmony with reality is ridiculous.

Your attempted rebuttal actually illustrates my point exactly.

No, but you're welcome to your opinion, or any attempt to spin things however you want to, or both.

You tried to map a modern understanding of "murder" onto Hebrew...

I did no such thing. There is no reasonable explanation for how you would even come up with such an idea as this.

...have now followed up with exactly why that was invalid.

LOL!

Grace and peace to you, Difflugia.

[1213]

...
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is obviously a poor maxim when on considers some of the wants of others. Should I whip others because I'm a masochist who likes to be whipped? ...

It is poor, if you don’t understand it. The answer to that question is, you should do that, if they want it as you want it. You wouldn’t want anything to be done to you against your will, so don't do anything against anyone else's will.

[2timothy316]

According to the Bible can a person be put to death for unintentionally killing an unborn baby due to being reckless? yes or no

No.

Then what in the world does 'life for life' mean to you in Exodus 21:23? Including your favorite translation.
In fact here are many translations.
https://biblehub.com/exodus/21-23.htm

take life for life
shall pay life for life,
you must require a life for a life
shalt give life for life,
you shall appoint as a penalty life for life,
give life for life,
payment will be life for life,

[Difflugia]

Then what in the world does 'life for life' mean to you in Exodus 21:23? Including your favorite translation.
In fact here are many translations.

It's referring to the life of the mother. If the mother is harmed or killed as a result of the injury, the offender is punished accordingly.

While we're at it, you still haven't told me what you think the compensation is for if there is a live birth without injury.

[Miles]

Rationalization?????

Yes!!!!

In what way is a recognized fact---abortion is not considered murder in the United States---rationalization?

Ohhhhh, you're either misunderstanding, or twisting my words; neither is good. That aside, that abortion is not considered murder in the United States is not quite true, is it, Miles?

It certainly is.

Many, many people in the United States disagree concerning a lot of different laws, abortion is only one example.

So what? Abortion is still not considered to be murder no matter how much they would like it to be.

"Murder" is a legal term, which can easily be seen in its definition.

mur·der
/ˈmərdər/
crime
noun: murder; plural noun: murders

the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

And concerning the law itself, it actually makes no statement concerning whether abortion is murder or not;

Good grief, are you honestly expecting the law to make a statement about every possible exception?

Eating meat on Fridays isn't murder
Putting out garbage the day before pick-up isn't murder
Performing an appendectomy isn't murder
Picking wood lice out of one's hair isn't murder
Singing Jingle Bells on July 4th isn't murder

At any rate, God says He formed us all in our mother's wombs.

When did he tell you this?

Several times; see above Biblical references.

What "above Biblical references"? Assuming your talking about Bible verses, which is the only thing that would count, I didn't see a thing.


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[2timothy316]

Then what in the world does 'life for life' mean to you in Exodus 21:23? Including your favorite translation.
In fact here are many translations.

It's referring to the life of the mother. If the mother is harmed or killed as a result of the injury, the offender is punished accordingly.

But it doesn't say 'if the woman dies' in the original Hebrew. It says [any] harm. The word woman is not there. Those translations that add woman to it are in error.
https://biblehub.com/text/exodus/21-23.htm

So yes or no, is the child worthless?

[Difflugia]

But it doesn't say 'if the woman dies' in the original Hebrew. It says [any] harm. The word woman is not there.

It doesn't say "[any] harm," either. "Harm" is unmodified.

So yes or no, is the child worthless?

No.

Now, for the third time, what do you think the compensation is for if there is a live birth without injury?