1 Col 3:17

[Wootah]

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

JWs and friends:

Why would I thank God through a not God being?

Why would all my words and deeds be in the name of a not God being?

When did the Shema get dropped? If I thought Jesus was not God I would consider the NT blasphemy of the worst kind.

[2timothy316]

Should I move this thread to the other forum where the Bible can be questioned?

Yes. If you don't want to fight the Bible then yes, move the thread somewhere else. Just remember wherever you send it to, what is your reference and everyone else's reference for truth? At some point I hope everyone here that is listening to something other than the Bible will wake up and give some serious consideration to what exactly are they listening to. Because I have listened to all of you folks that think God speaks to them and none of you are in unity.

[onewithhim]

Jesus is 100 percent of the Father... and 100 percent of man. This is the only way He can be our Mediator (as Hebrews is crystall clear on).

I dont know what you mean by the above but if it is that the resurrected Christ is presently equal in power and position to The Father, then please provide the reference.

I would like to see the reference also. My understanding is that Jesus was back in heaven when Paul had these words penned: "I would have you know, brothers, that ...the head of Christ is God." (God being Jehovah, the Father.) I Corinthians 11:3.

[JehovahsWitness]

...but if it is that the resurrected Christ is presently equal in power and position to The Father, then please provide the reference.

... My personal favorites are all the verses/passages that speak of Christ after His ascension being seated at the right hand of God (Matthew 26:64, Mark 14:62, Luke 22:69, Ephesians 1:20, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 8:1...).

Okay we tre looking for two elements in the references provided: equal in power and equality in position:

DO PASSAGES THAT SPEAK OF JESUS ENTHRONED AT THE FATHERS " RIGHT HAND" SUGGEST EQUALITY?

MATTHEW 26:64 (also see Mark 14:62, Luke 22:69, Colossians 3:1)

Jesus said to him: “You yourself said it. But I say to you: From now on you will see the Son of man+ sitting at the right hand of power+ and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

In Biblical usage, the “right hand” often stands for a position of favor not EQUALITY. Note what Jesus does during his Judgement of the nations ...

MATTHEW 25:33

And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

Further the bible indicates the resurrected Jesus is placed in that position by his Father. Thus the position is not intrinsic as it would be for Almighty God but a privilege bestowed on the resurrected Christ by a higher authority.

EPHESIANS 1: 20, 22, 24
... Christ when he [the Father] raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, ... and made him head over all things with regard to the congregation,+ 23 which is his body,+ the fullness of him who fills up all things in all.

1 PETER 3:22

He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.

ACTS 5:31

God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand.

Moreover from this position the resurrected Christ is referred to as "a minister" and likened to the High Priest whose fonction was to lead the people in worship of YHWH not to be worshipped as Almighty Gods equal.

HEBREWS 8:1, 2

Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this,+ and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens,+ 2 a minister* of the holy place+ and of the true tent, which Jehovah* set up, and not man.

*Or "public servant"

JW

FURTHER READING

Full scripture index
http://examiningthetrinity.blogspot.com ... index.html

Trinity "proof" texts debunked
http://onlytruegod.org/defense/trinity_prooftexts.htm

To learn more please go to to other posts related to ...

GOD, JESUS and ...THE TRINITY

[JehovahsWitness]

...but if it is that the resurrected Christ is presently equal in power and position to The Father, then please provide the reference.

... My personal favorites are ...Hebrews 12:2 ...

...Hebrews 12:2, which says Jesus is "the founder and perfecter of our faith," this dovetails very nicely with Paul's statement in Ephesians 2:8, that faith is the gift of God ("...by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God').

How do either of those Scriptures support the idea of the resurrected Christ being equal in power and position to The Father?

[JehovahsWitness]

... the Father and the Son had and shared the same glory from all eternity (John 17) and will forevermore (Revelation 5).

The Scriptures refered to do not say what you claim. Nothing in either chaprter indicates the resurrected Christ to be equal in power or position to His Father.




JW

[PinSeeker]

The Scriptures referred to do not say what you claim.

Well, they do, JW. But thanks again for your opinion.

Nothing in either chapter indicates the resurrected Christ to be equal in power or position to His Father.

Yes, they do. And I don't have any problem with you stating that's only my opinion.

Grace and peace to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

The Scriptures referred to do not say what you claim.

Well, they do, JW. But thanks again for your opinion.

No they don't, but thanks for yours.

Have a nice day,

JW

[PinSeeker]

Jesus is 100 percent of the Father... and 100 percent of man. This is the only way He can be our Mediator (as Hebrews is crystal clear on).

I dont know what you mean by the above but if it is that the resurrected Christ is presently equal in power and position to The Father, then please provide the reference.

I would like to see the reference also.

Paul is very clear about this in all his letters, particularly Philippians (specifically 2:5-11) and Colossians. I am very well aware of the Watchtower's attempted revision of these passages to fit their narrative, but it is what it is.

My understanding is that Jesus was back in heaven when Paul had these words penned: "I would have you know, brothers, that ...the head of Christ is God." (God being Jehovah, the Father.) I Corinthians 11:3.

Well let's look at the whole passage, onewithhim, instead of just cherry-picking. I mean, just that one verse will suffice, but what you cut out with that little ellipse is very, very important:

"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God."

Paul put it right after the man-wife relationship purposefully in order to press the headship analogy. He is saying that a Man’s headship over his wife is like -- thus the conjunctions, 'and' -- God’s headship over Christ. And the main way they are similar is that even though Christ submits to God the Father, that submission doesn’t make him inferior to his Father in terms of deity. And, likewise, husband and wife are equally created in God’s image and have equal value and dignity before God as persons, and that equality is not diminished at all by the fact that the man is head over his wife. Difference does not mean inequality. Different roles for men and women within the covenant of marriage do not imply inequality between men and women as persons. And coming back again, different roles for the Father and the Son within the triune Jehovah (along with the Holy Spirit, of course) do not imply inequality of any sort between the three Persons of the Godhead, the triune Jehovah. So Christ’s deity and His oneness and equality -- and glory -- with the Father is not diminished in any way by his mediatorial submission to his Father.

Grace and peace to both of you.

[PinSeeker]

The Scriptures referred to do not say what you claim.

Well, they do, JW. But thanks again for your opinion.

No they don't, but thanks for yours.

Have a nice day,

JW

"Tastes great!" "Less filling!" "Tastes great!" "Less filling!" Right? Well, no, not really, but we can leave it at that.

Yes, a nice day to you also, JW. Grace and peace to you.

[JehovahsWitness]

Christ submits to God the Father, that submission doesn’t make him inferior to his Father in terms of deity.

Is the individual that submits equal in authority to that to which he submits?




JW