Must the modern people of God be an organization?

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Eloi
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Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #1

Post by Eloi »

When Jehovah formed the nation of Israel, he organized it. He gave them laws, judges, prophets, priests, etc. He took them to a territory and eventually made them a nation with a land of their own. He protected them as long as they were faithful, but in the end he rejected them as His chosen people.

Later, when the followers of Christ became an international community, he organized them. The apostles and elders in Jerusalem constituted its Governing Body. Congregations were formed in different places where it was preached, and the holy spirit appointed overseers among them, who always followed the general instructions of the Governing Body as we can see in Acts 15 ... until the apostasy plunged Christians into darkness.

The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #21

Post by JehovahsWitness »

IS CHRISTIANITY A RELIGION?
Checkpoint wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 2:42 am
[Christianity] is not a religion that has this or that interpretation of this or that, as if this would bring unity.
Correct, Christianity is a religion that brings unity.

JAMES 1:27 - Berean Study Bible

Pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father is this: to care for orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.



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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #22

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:56 pm
Correct, Christianity is a religion that brings unity.
History has shown quite clearly that isn't the case.

Image

Paul reveals that it wasn't even true in the early church.
1 Corinthians 1

10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #23

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 am The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?
Gotta say, I checked around a bit, but never found a Bible that said "a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah" in Isaiah 2:2-4. Are you sure you got the right chapter and verse?

.

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #24

Post by JehovahsWitness »

FIRSTLY PLEASE NOTE I make no claims here, I am simply presenting bible based doctrine

I see you quoted the BIBLE to support your point. I will do exactly the same thing.
I'm sure you are not going to object to my doing what you have done
Tcg wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 10:26 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 8:56 pm
Correct, Christianity is a religion that brings unity.

That is correct. Scripturally (according to the bible) it how God identifies the one group that HE accepte as Christians as opposed to the multitude that self identify as such but he reject as being apostate Christianity(see Matthew 7:21-23)
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #25

Post by JehovahsWitness »

DOES 1 CORINTHIANS INDICATE THAT THE ORIGINAL FIRST CENTURY CHURCH NEVER EXISTED AS A DOCTINALLY AND ORGANISATIONALY UNITED BODY?

1 Corinthians 1

10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”




1. The fact that Paul wrote the CORINTHIANS is indicative he was taking measures to preserve already existing organisational and doctrinal unity.

2. Having personal differences does not mean indivuals have seperate into a denomination any more than an argument means a divorce

3. The fact that Paul could addressed the above problem as a recognised authority indicates the problem was still "in house"

4. The second letter of Corinthians indicates the problem was regulated.

5. The writings of Paul, John and others indicate that the mechanism existed and was implemented to preserve organisational and doctrinal unity as well as address personal differences to protect the body from fragmenting into sprinter groups.
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #26

Post by Eloi »

Paul said to the Romans:

Rom. 9:25 It is as he says also in Hosea: “Those not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved ‘beloved’; 26 and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

He was quoting:

Hos. 2:23 And I shall certainly sow her like seed for me in the earth, and I will show mercy to her who was not shown mercy, and I will say to those not my people: “You are my people”; and they, for their part, will say: “[You are] my God.”

... and:

Hos. 1:10b And it must occur that in the place in which it used to be said to them, ‘YOU men are not my people,’ it will be said to them, ‘The sons of the living God.’

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #27

Post by Eloi »

Miles wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:56 am
Eloi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 am The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?
Gotta say, I checked around a bit, but never found a Bible that said "a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah" in Isaiah 2:2-4. Are you sure you got the right chapter and verse?

.
When Isaiah inspiredly predicted that the mountain of Jehovah would be exalted in the end time, he was saying that the united people of God during the last days would be visible to all the world and easily identifiable.

Is. 2:2 In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.  3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.  4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #28

Post by Purple Knight »

Eloi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 amShould we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?
No. Leaders are, as a general tendency, bad people, and you religious people don't need them. They need you. But you don't need them. Never forget that.

Now, it can be argued that you need community, and that's going to be tough without leadership. It's generally accepted that you need a way to keep snakes out of your gardens and that doesn't happen without either 1) leadership or 2) random mobs popping up and potentially devolving into the type of witch hunts and popularity contests that might actually hurt those communities.

This might only be what I believe, but although the person who can command a thousand is rare, each of the hearts of those he commands is worth a thousand of his.

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #29

Post by Eloi »

Purple Knight wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:02 pm(...)
I see that you have had a very bad experience with whom you have considered your "leaders"... What makes you think that mine are like yours?

Jesus is aware of how those he has designated act on his people:

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave if his master on coming finds him doing so! 44 I tell you truthfully, he will appoint him over all his belongings.

As he himself has designated them, I fully trust his decision. In fact, the years have shown my leaders to be reasonable and loving, displaying a spirit of wisdom that can only be possible under the approval of God and his Son and under the influence of the holy spirit in them.

If that were not the case, they would have to answer directly to Jesus.

Luke 12:45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and starts to beat the male and female servants and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting him and at an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave who understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do what he asked will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one who did not understand and yet did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him, and the one who was put in charge of much will have more than usual demanded of him.

I feel blessed to belong to God's people, because he has drawn me to his people. :dance:

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Re: Must the modern people of God be an organization?

Post #30

Post by Miles »

Eloi wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:53 pm
Miles wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 12:56 am
Eloi wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:15 am The Bible prophesied that in the time of the end a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah (Is. 2:2-4). Does such a people already exist? Should we expect them to be organized like the Israelites and first century Christians?
Gotta say, I checked around a bit, but never found a Bible that said "a new people would arise bearing the name of Jehovah" in Isaiah 2:2-4. Are you sure you got the right chapter and verse?

.
When Isaiah inspiredly predicted that the mountain of Jehovah would be exalted in the end time, he was saying that the united people of God during the last days would be visible to all the world and easily identifiable.

Is. 2:2 In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream.  3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.  4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.
So you didn't find any mention of "a new people" either. I didn't figure you would.

.

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