Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

[Eloi]

The Jews to whom they were first preached the good news of the Kingdom already knew who God is. Jesus and his apostles were Jews, so they knew it too. The OT is full of references to the person of God and his personal name, so Jews were considered His witnesses (Is. 43:10-12). Jesus even told the Jews that the One they believed to be their God was his own Father.

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Although Jesus mentioned his Father to them many times, he had to make them understand that he was the Messiah that Jehovah had promised before, but they did not believe him. In time it began to be preached to non-Jews who believed in many gods, and who had no idea of the importance of God's Messiah.

What God did Judeo-Christians speak to non-Jews when Christian congregations began to form in the first century? Did they talk about Jehovah, or did they forget about him? Can a worshiper of Jehovah forget his God?

[Eloi]

In the same way that Ps. 110: 1 is the only pre-Christian Scriptures text that talks about Jehovah sitting Jesus on His right in the heavens and that prophecy is repeated several times in the Christian Scriptures to identify Jehovah God, in that same Psalm we read the following:

Ps. 110:4 Jehovah has sworn an oath, and he will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever
In the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek!”

Only there can we read about the appointment of Jesus by Jehovah as High Priest. However, in the Christian Scriptures we read Paul repeating the prophecy and applying it to Jesus, for example here:

Heb. 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed in their behalf over the things relating to God, so that he may offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal compassionately with the ignorant and erring ones, since he too is confronted with his own weakness, 3 and because of that he must make offerings for his own sins just as he does for those of the people.
4 A man does not take this honor of his own accord, but he receives it only when he is called by God, just as Aaron was. 5 So, too, the Christ did not glorify himself by becoming a high priest, but was glorified by the One who said to him: “You are my son; today I have become your father.” 6 As he also says in another place, “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.”

Is it not true that the person studying the Bible can easily identify Jehovah as God?

[onewithhim]

We can easily identify Jehovah in the prayer of Peter and the other disciples, which they did when they were released after the Jews of the Sanhedrin arrested them to intimidate them into not talking about Jesus as Messiah anymore. They had only just begun to preach publicly a very short time ago. This is the prayer they made in Acts 4:24-29.

“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them,  and who said through holy spirit by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant: ‘Why did nations become agitated and peoples meditate on empty things? The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers gathered together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’  For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate with men of the nations and with peoples of Israel were gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, to do what your hand and counsel had determined beforehand to occur. And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant to your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and wonders occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

In that prayer to God the Scripture of Psalm 2 is quoted:

Psal. 2:1 Why are the nations agitated And the peoples muttering an empty thing? 2 The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.

In this Psalm it is stated with complete clarity that Jesus is the anointed of Jehovah. It is obvious that Christians knew the difference between Jehovah God and his Son Jesus. Actually, in their prayer to Jehovah, they mention Jesus as Jehovah's "holy servant", not as equal to God.

Suppose there were relatives, neighbors and friends who heard that prayer of the recently released right there. Didn't they know who Jehovah is? Could they clearly distinguish Jehovah from Jesus, or not?

Excellent thoughts, eloi. What you say can be discerned as truthful by reasoning individuals (Isaiah 1:18, KJV). Would any of those reasoning individuals care to comment on the very obvious fact that Jesus is the Messiah and the sent one from Jehovah?

[PinSeeker]

God (YHVH) in the Old Testament
I AM (Exodus 3:14–15; Isaiah 48:12)
The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1)
The Light (Psalm 27:1)
The Rock (Psalm 18:2)
Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6)
Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12)
The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16)
God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8)
The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezra 34:9)
First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12)

Jesus’ references to Himself
I AM (John 8:58)
The Shepherd (John 10:11)
The Light (John 8:12)
The Rock (Matthew 7:24)
Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18)
Judge of all (John 5:22)
The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1)
My words never pass away (Mark 13:31)
The Sower (Matthew 13:3–9)
First and the Last (Revelation 1:17–18)

The 'and' in Psalm 2 certainly indicates a difference in person between the Father and the Son, but indicates a congruence and oneness in substance... and deity. As does Psalm 110 and many other passages, Old and New Testaments alike.

God -- YHVH -- is one "What" (God; YHVH; Jehovah), and three "Whos" (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Grace and peace to all.

[onewithhim]

God (YHVH) in the Old Testament
I AM (Exodus 3:14–15; Isaiah 48:12)
The Shepherd (Psalm 23:1)
The Light (Psalm 27:1)
The Rock (Psalm 18:2)
Ruler of all (Isaiah 9:6)
Judge of all nations (Joel 3:12)
The Bridegroom (Isaiah 62:5; Hosea 2:16)
God’s Word never passes away (Isaiah 40:8)
The Sower (Jeremiah 31:27; Ezra 34:9)
First and the Last (Isaiah 48:12)

Jesus’ references to Himself
I AM (John 8:58)
The Shepherd (John 10:11)
The Light (John 8:12)
The Rock (Matthew 7:24)
Ruler of all (Matthew 28:18)
Judge of all (John 5:22)
The Bridegroom (Matthew 25:1)
My words never pass away (Mark 13:31)
The Sower (Matthew 13:3–9)
First and the Last (Revelation 1:17–18)

The 'and' in Psalm 2 certainly indicates a difference in person between the Father and the Son, but indicates a congruence and oneness in substance... and deity. As does Psalm 110 and many other passages, Old and New Testaments alike.

God -- YHVH -- is one "What" (God; YHVH; Jehovah), and three "Whos" (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Grace and peace to all.

Jesus referred to himself as many of the things that describe Jehovah, but that does not lead us to conclude that they are the same Person! Jesus was representing his Father Jehovah, so he could claim many of the Father's attributes. Colossians states that he is the IMAGE of the invisible God, not God.....not the same Person as he is the image of. (Col.1:15)

Jesus is not the Person who told Moses what to say to the children of Israel in Egypt. What he said at John 8:58 does not coincide with Exodus 3:14. Jewish scholars and others have translated Exodus 3:14 not as "I Am" but as "I Will." Therefore, to go with your interpretation, Jesus said, "before Abraham was born, I Will." Jesus did not say that he was "I Am" or "I Will" or anything adding up supposedly to him being Jehovah. John 8:58 simply meant, "Before Abraham was born, I WAS, or, I existed." Do some research and you can see what I'm talking about. (Jason BeDuhn's very interesting book, Truth In Translation is one excellent non-JW source.)

Jesus is also not the Alpha and Omega. It is only Jehovah who is. Every reference to Alpha and Omega can be associated with Jehovah God. There are two places that Jesus is referred to as "the First and the Last," but if you look at the original Greek, the words are not the same as Alpha and Omega. (Rev.1:17; 2:8)) It takes deep study to understand the truth of the matter. Pray to Jehovah to show you the truth.

[PinSeeker]

Jesus referred to himself as many of the things that describe Jehovah...

Right, because He (along with the Father and the Spirit) is YHVH. Thank you for reiterating the point.

Jesus was representing his Father Jehovah, so he could claim many of the Father's attributes.

Yes, and He was doing His Father's will, as He clearly said. As Paul also says, "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He (God) was manifested in the flesh..." (1 Timothy 3:16). If Christ were merely representing Jehovah in the way that some suppose and not Jehovah Himself, He would have been committing blasphemy and the attempts to stone Him as such would have been fully justified by the Law. Indeed, the Father Himself would be guilty of violating His own Law, because He was the One Who sent Jesus (multiple references in John). Any notion of blasphemy committed by the Son or the Father is patently ridiculous, as Scripture makes abundantly clear.

Colossians states that he is the IMAGE of the invisible God...

Right, but we must understand what 'image' means... which is not difficult. We are created IN God's image (Genesis 1:26), and as such, we are made to be like God in certain respects, but not to be God. He gave us dominion over all of the earth, and created us with a mind capable of creative thought and the ability to know Him. Jesus, however, IS God's image (Colossians 1:15), He is the image of the invisible God, as you yourself point out. Indeed, you are making the very point you are trying so hard not to refute.

....not the same Person as he is the image of. (Col.1:15)

He is a separate person from the Father, yes, but again, as Hebrews 1:3 states, He (Jesus) is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and He -- Jesus -- upholds the universe by the word of His power. See above.

Jesus is not the Person who told Moses what to say to the children of Israel in Egypt.

Agreed. But He is the same in substance with the Father, in possession of the same glory as the Father from before the world existed (John 17:5).

What he said at John 8:58 does not coincide with Exodus 3:14.

Yes it does.

John 8:58 simply meant, "Before Abraham was born, I WAS, or, I existed."

He said "I AM." Before Abraham was, I AM. He did not say, "I WAS," as if merely in the past tense. The NWT, as you must well know, actually says "I HAVE BEEN," and Jesus is affirming His eternal, unchanging nature and state -- past, present, and future; from everlasting to everlasting -- and therefore His deity. So there is some good to it, but the bad is that this translation, though, is a purposeful refutation of Jesus's assigning of God's personal name unto Himself. This has been discussed at length, but again, while the original statement in the Book of John comes to us in Greek, the context indicates irrefutably that Jesus is invoking the Divine Name of God. The Jewish people took this law seriously, and reacted to Christ invoking I AM by trying to carry out the punishment of the Levitical law. To them it was blasphemy, as Christ took the Divine name for Himself. It's the whole thrust of the passage; if they had not thought/known He was invoking the Name of God, there would have been no accusation of blasphemy.

Do some research and you can see what I'm talking about.

Do you mean to say that as if I haven't? So, right back atcha, onewithhim, but mere research (personal effort) may not do it for you. You need the Holy Spirit to discern these things.

Jason BeDuhn's very interesting book, Truth In Translation is one excellent non-JW source.

Ah, Jason BeDuhn. Yes, I'm aware of his work. There is good to be taken from his work. Quite a bit, actually. Jehovah's Witnesses like to to selectively quote his book because he compliments portions of the New World Translation. But he also points out areas of weakness in the NWT, devoting an entire appendix (The Use of "Jehovah") to the 200-plus occurrences of "Jehovah" in the New World Translation Greek Scriptures (New Testament). In that appendix he essentially denies the most prominent feature of the New World Translation's Greek Scriptures when he disputes the appropriateness of using Jehovah in the New Testament. BeDuhn equally removes the legitimacy of the New World Translation's claim that the Tetragrammaton was used in the autographs. As a result, even though Truth in Translation is to some extent an important ally of the New World Translation regarding translation bias, in this appendix BeDuhn completely discredits the New World Translation's most important claim that the name Jehovah has been appropriately restored in the Christian Scriptures. To quote:

• "...there are three more verses where, by the principles applied by the NWT editors, "Jehovah" should be used, and yet is not: 2 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Peter 2:3; and 1 Peter 3:15. These three passages present a serious problem for the NWT translators... The fact that they do not, and apparently cannot, have "Jehovah" in these three passages underscores the problem with the whole idea of using "Jehovah" in the New Testament. [In 2 Thessalonians 1:9] Paul quotes Isaiah 2:21, which includes YHWH in the Hebrew version and "Lord" in the Septuagint. There is no reason for the NWT not to have "Jehovah" here according to its own principles. But in the context of 2 Thessalonians 1, Jesus is the primary subject... This may be an instance of a New Testament author reapplying an Old Testament passage about YHWH to Jesus because the word "Lord" is ambiguous in its reference. In such a circumstance, the NWT editors shy away from using "Jehovah." Likewise, in 1 Peter 2:3 and 3:15, the NWT translators have deviated from the principles by which they use "Jehovah,": and they have done so quite obviously because of bias. In both passages, by taking advantage of the ambiguity of the Greek kurios ("Lord"), Peter reapplies to Jesus an Old Testament statement that was originally about YHVH. The inconsistency of the NWT translators in not using "Jehovah" in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, 1 Peter 2:3, and 1 Peter 3:15 shows that interpretation rather than a principle of translation is involved in deciding where to use "Jehovah." If the NWT translators stick consistently to using "Jehovah" whenever an Old Testament passage containing God's name is quoted in the New Testament, that is a translation principle of a sort (whether one agrees with it or not). But if in such cases they sometimes use "Jehovah" and sometimes revert to "Lord," then they are interpreting the reference of the biblical author. Once we recognize that interpretation is involved, and see three examples where this interpretation has led the translators not to use "Jehovah," we must wonder if they have been correct to use it in all seventy of those other occurrences. Couldn't there be other passages among them where, as apparently in 2 Thessalonians 1:9, 1 Peter 2:32, and 1 Peter 3:15, the reference of the verse has been redirected to Jesus? By moving beyond translation of the Greek to an interpretation, the translator ventures from the bedrock of the text to the shifting sands of opinion." (pp. 174-175)

Truth in Translation is a good book, and worth reading. BeDuhn has done a good job of explaining and illustrating translation bias in the New Testament.

Jesus is also not the Alpha and Omega. It is only Jehovah who is.

Jesus is most certainly the Alpha and Omega. Jesus proclaimed Himself to be the “Alpha and Omega” in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; and 22:13 Among the Jewish rabbis, it was common to use the first and the last letters of the Hebrew alphabet to denote the whole of anything, from beginning to end. Jesus as the beginning and end of all things is a reference to no one but the true God. This statement of eternality could apply only to God. It is seen especially in Revelation 22:13, where Jesus proclaims:

• “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Every reference to Alpha and Omega can be associated with Jehovah God. There are two places that Jesus is referred to as "the First and the Last," but if you look at the original Greek, the words are not the same as Alpha and Omega. (Rev.1:17; 2:8)

See above.

It takes deep study to understand the truth of the matter.

No, it really doesn't. Not to discount study, because it is by the renewing of our minds that we are transformed (Romans 12:2), but it is the Holy Spirit -- also Jehovah -- who reveals these things to man. Deep study certainly has its merits, though; we should never stop plumbing the depths of the full counsel of God.

Pray to Jehovah to show you the truth.

I do that daily; you should, too. And I also pray that He would work through me to reveal Himself to others.

Grace and peace to you, onewithhim. I do pray that you, with me, would be one with Jesus, as He is in the Father and the Father in Him.

[Eloi]

(...) Not to discount study, because it is by the renewing of our minds that we are transformed (Romans 12:2), but it is the Holy Spirit -- also Jehovah -- who reveals these things to man. Deep study certainly has its merits, though; we should never stop plumbing the depths of the full counsel of God.
(...)

You have so much imagination that you believe of yourself more than what you really are (Gal. 6:3). None of your posts have absolutely refuted a single thing that has been raised on the subject; you have done nothing but making excuses, sending readers on a wild goose chase, diverting the subject over and over and over again to avoid facing biblical facts: Jesus and his first-century disciples knew very well that Jehovah is the Father of Jesus, and it is Him who Jesus identified as God. They, who were also Jews, knew that very well.

It wasn't until many years later that a group of very confused people mistook God's identity and stopped teaching the truth. Since then they have filled the Earth with religious deception that had nothing to do with first century Jesus' and Christian teachings.

A recap of WHAT you have not yet disproved/refuted (and will never be able to):

1) Jesus told the Jews that who they said was their God, Jehovah, is his Father. (John 8:54,55)

2) Jesus said that the temple where Jehovah was worshiped in Jerusalem was "his Father's house," identifying Jehovah as his own Father. (John 2:13-17)

3) In Luc. 4:18-21 Jesus reads Isa. 61:1,2 where he says that Jehovah had just anointed him with his holy spirit.

4) Jesus identified his Father, Jehovah, with the One who had sent him and who was in heaven, from where he had come (John 17:3, 6, 21-26).

5) In the Christian Greek Scriptures we find phrases that directly and exclusively identify Jehovah as the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, of the forefathers of the Jews and of all of them ... that identify him ALSO with the One who raised Jesus and sat him on His right hand (Acts 3:13; 5:30,31) and made him His High Priest (Psal. 110:4; Heb. 5:1-6) ... declaring Jesus as the Servant of Jehovah.

6) We can read in the NT prayers of Jesus himself and his disciples to Jehovah, where they identify Him as Lord (Matt. 11:25,26), God and Sovereign of them (Acts 4:24-29), connecting the person to whom they are addressed in prayer with the very Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures.

7) Various prophecies that mention both Jehovah and Jesus in the pre-Christian Scriptures are cited in the Greek Scriptures to refer to Jehovah as the person of God who sends Jesus (Deut. 18: 15-19 and Acts 3: 18- 24), resuscitates him, exalts him, sits him at His right hand (Eph. 1:17-23), etc.

Irrefutable proofs that Jehovah is the person of the Father and God of Jesus in heaven fills the Christian Greek Scriptures from beginning to end so it becomes OBVIOUS to anyone who studies the Bible that Jehovah and Jesus cannot in any way be the same person or much less ... and that Jesus himself and all those who followed him in the first century were perfectly aware of this reality.

So please have the decency to accept biblical reality or at least try to refute the teachings of Christ and his disciples that are read in the Bible before you fill my topics with your excuses.

Matt. 6:22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is simple, your whole body will be bright; 23 but if your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is!"

[PinSeeker]

You have so much imagination...

Well everyone has a great imagination; God blessed us all with that. And we have an imagination because we're all made in His image (as opposed to actually being His image, which Jesus was/is). When we consider all of creation, we know that God had great imagination, right? But imagination has nothing to do with anything we're discussing, my friend. We disagree on things. We're all well aware of that.

None of your posts have absolutely refuted a single thing that has been raised on the subject

Well now that's just your opinion, Eloi, is it not? Or I guess what you would call your imagination. But your opinion it is, and you're fully entitled to it.

...you have done nothing but making excuses...

Excuses? What have I even made any excuse for? To my knowledge, I have made no excuse for anything.

...sending readers on a wild goose chase...

LOL! Away from what I consider falsities, for sure. And incomplete truths. LOL!

...diverting the subject over and over and over again...

Well, diverting posters and readers from said falsities, but surely not diverting the subject by any stretch of the imagination. LOL!

...to avoid facing biblical facts...

I absolutely do not avoid facing biblical facts, again, by any stretch of the imagination. But I do confront, head on, what I believe to be wrong-headed takes on biblical facts, and will not cease to do so, despite how angry it may make some folks.

Jesus and his first-century disciples knew very well that Jehovah is the Father of Jesus, and it is Him who Jesus identified as God[/b]. They, who were also Jews, knew that very well.

Sure they did. I've never said otherwise.

It wasn't until many years later that a group of very confused people mistook God's identity and stopped teaching the truth. Since then they have filled the Earth with religious deception that had nothing to do with first century Jesus' and Christian teachings.

Well, maybe, but I'm not sure who you're talking about. I, Eloi, just agreed with you.

A recap of WHAT you have not yet disproved/refuted (and will never be able to):

1) Jesus told the Jews that who they said was their God, Jehovah, is his Father. (John 8:54,55)
2) Jesus said that the temple where Jehovah was worshiped in Jerusalem was "his Father's house," identifying Jehovah as his own Father. (John 2:13-17)
3) In Luc. 4:18-21 Jesus reads Isa. 61:1,2 where he says that Jehovah had just anointed him with his holy spirit.
4) Jesus identified his Father, Jehovah, with the One who had sent him and who was in heaven, from where he had come (John 17:3, 6, 21-26).
5) In the Christian Greek Scriptures we find phrases that directly and exclusively identify Jehovah as the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, of the forefathers of the Jews and of all of them ... that identify him ALSO with the One who raised Jesus and sat him on His right hand (Acts 3:13; 5:30,31) and made him His High Priest (Psal. 110:4; Heb. 5:1-6) ... declaring Jesus as the Servant of Jehovah.
6) We can read in the NT prayers of Jesus himself and his disciples to Jehovah, where they identify Him as Lord (Matt. 11:25,26), God and Sovereign of them (Acts 4:24-29), connecting the person to whom they are addressed in prayer with the very Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures.
7) Various prophecies that mention both Jehovah and Jesus in the pre-Christian Scriptures are cited in the Greek Scriptures to refer to Jehovah as the person of God who sends Jesus (Deut. 18: 15-19 and Acts 3: 18- 24), resuscitates him, exalts him, sits him at His right hand (Eph. 1:17-23), etc.

I have refuted/disproved absolutely none of the above because I would not try to do so. So your "recap" is totally misdirected. I have rather fully acknowledged all of the above. Every single one of these points, while true, stop short of outwardly stating that Jehovah is triune, but that does absolutely nothing to refute or disprove the fact that Jehovah is triune or the fact that Jesus is the second person of the triune Jehovah. The Father said, certainly, that He is Jehovah; but the Son proved, just as certainly, that He was (and is) Jehovah become flesh, physically dwelling (2000-plus years ago now) among us.

Irrefutable proofs that Jehovah is the person of the Father and God of Jesus in heaven fills the Christian Greek Scriptures from beginning to end so it becomes OBVIOUS to anyone who studies the Bible that Jehovah and Jesus cannot in any way be the same person or much less ... and that Jesus himself and all those who followed him in the first century were perfectly aware of this reality.

Right, the Father and the Son are two distinct Persons. I'm not sure how many times I've said that, but, well, quite a few...

So please have the decency to accept biblical reality or at least try to refute the teachings of Christ and his disciples that are read in the Bible before you fill my topics with your excuses.

Again, I have made no "excuse" for anything, but the only matter here is that you (and others) disagree with what I (and others) believe that biblical reality to be. Disagreement should not make anyone so angry, but that's certainly your prerogative. At any rate, there are... quite a few <chuckles>... differing beliefs on various biblical realities among different posters here. That's kind of what this board is for, I think. As for decency, I would think we all have that, but some are certainly lacking (more than others, I guess, because none of us are perfect) in grace.

Matt. 6:22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If, then, your eye is simple, your whole body will be bright; 23 but if your eye is wicked, your whole body will be dark. If in reality the light that is in you is darkness, how great that darkness is!"

"...how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye..." (Jesus, Matthew 7:4-5)

"For the time is coming..." (now here) "...when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." (Paul, 2 Timothy 4:3-4)

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, Eloi.

[DrNoGods]

[Replying to Eloi in post #27]

You have so much imagination that you believe of yourself more than what you really are (Gal. 6:3).

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[onewithhim]

Jesus referred to himself as many of the things that describe Jehovah...

Right, because He (along with the Father and the Spirit) is YHVH. Thank you for reiterating the point.

Jesus was representing his Father Jehovah, so he could claim many of the Father's attributes.

Yes, and He was doing His Father's will, as He clearly said. As Paul also says, "Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He (God) was manifested in the flesh..." (1 Timothy 3:16).

That Scripture has been tampered with, and that can be proven by examining many other translations that use the original Greek rather than the King James Version (which went with the Latin). Most versions say: (the word "God" is not in the more reliable versions) "HE was made manifest," or, "WHO was made manifest." Referring to Jesus, the manifestation of the sacred secret. Not God.

[Eloi]

I, Eloi, just agreed with you.

A recap of WHAT you have not yet disproved/refuted (and will never be able to):

1) Jesus told the Jews that who they said was their God, Jehovah, is his Father. (John 8:54,55)
2) Jesus said that the temple where Jehovah was worshiped in Jerusalem was "his Father's house," identifying Jehovah as his own Father. (John 2:13-17)
3) In Luc. 4:18-21 Jesus reads Isa. 61:1,2 where he says that Jehovah had just anointed him with his holy spirit.
4) Jesus identified his Father, Jehovah, with the One who had sent him and who was in heaven, from where he had come (John 17:3, 6, 21-26).
5) In the Christian Greek Scriptures we find phrases that directly and exclusively identify Jehovah as the same God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, of the forefathers of the Jews and of all of them ... that identify him ALSO with the One who raised Jesus and sat him on His right hand (Acts 3:13; 5:30,31) and made him His High Priest (Psal. 110:4; Heb. 5:1-6) ... declaring Jesus as the Servant of Jehovah.
6) We can read in the NT prayers of Jesus himself and his disciples to Jehovah, where they identify Him as Lord (Matt. 11:25,26), God and Sovereign of them (Acts 4:24-29), connecting the person to whom they are addressed in prayer with the very Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures.
7) Various prophecies that mention both Jehovah and Jesus in the pre-Christian Scriptures are cited in the Greek Scriptures to refer to Jehovah as the person of God who sends Jesus (Deut. 18: 15-19 and Acts 3: 18- 24), resuscitates him, exalts him, sits him at His right hand (Eph. 1:17-23), etc.

I have refuted/disproved absolutely none of the above because I would not try to do so. So your "recap" is totally misdirected. I have rather fully acknowledged all of the above. Every single one of these points, while true, stop short of outwardly stating that Jehovah is triune, but that does absolutely nothing to refute or disprove the fact that Jehovah is triune or the fact that Jesus is the second person of the triune Jehovah. The Father said, certainly, that He is Jehovah; but the Son proved, just as certainly, that He was (and is) Jehovah become flesh, physically dwelling (2000-plus years ago now) among us.

Irrefutable proofs that Jehovah is the person of the Father and God of Jesus in heaven fills the Christian Greek Scriptures from beginning to end so it becomes OBVIOUS to anyone who studies the Bible that Jehovah and Jesus cannot in any way be the same person or much less ... and that Jesus himself and all those who followed him in the first century were perfectly aware of this reality.

Right, the Father and the Son are two distinct Persons. I'm not sure how many times I've said that, but, well, quite a few...
(...)

It would be very productive for you to consider your own beliefs objectively, without prejudging yourself from the things I am trying to help you understand just because I am a Jehovah's Witness.

If Jehovah, the Father of Jesus (as you yourself recognize) were "triune" then it would not be a trinity but a quint-unity: three in Jehovah (the Father) and then the Christ-god and then the other anonymous person that you add ... They add up to five, not three.

You cannot identify the Father, Jehovah, with the Trinity, to continue complicating that bizarre doctrine of three gods in one God.