Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Eloi
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Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Post by Eloi »

The Jews to whom they were first preached the good news of the Kingdom already knew who God is. Jesus and his apostles were Jews, so they knew it too. The OT is full of references to the person of God and his personal name, so Jews were considered His witnesses (Is. 43:10-12). Jesus even told the Jews that the One they believed to be their God was his own Father.

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Although Jesus mentioned his Father to them many times, he had to make them understand that he was the Messiah that Jehovah had promised before, but they did not believe him. In time it began to be preached to non-Jews who believed in many gods, and who had no idea of the importance of God's Messiah.

What God did Judeo-Christians speak to non-Jews when Christian congregations began to form in the first century? Did they talk about Jehovah, or did they forget about him? Can a worshiper of Jehovah forget his God?

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Post by onewithhim »

Difflugia wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:31 am
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:31 amWhere does it report that he didn't?
Luke 4:18-19, the verses most recently being discussed. If the New Testament is historically accurate to that level of detail, whatever Jesus called Yahweh is equivalent to the Greek κυρίος, "lord."
The New Testament is not historically accurate to that level of detail. There is evidence that the New Testament contained the Tetragrammaton until somewhere in the second century when some insideous efforts replaced that name with "Lord." And surely Jesus would have pronounced the name when reading from the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) where the Tetragrammaton appeared 7,000 times. He would not have avoided pronouncing that name of his Father. (John 17:6,26)

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #82

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:45 pmThe New Testament is not historically accurate to that level of detail.
To what level of detail is it accurate? How certain are you that, for example, Jesus went into the temple and read the scroll in the first place?
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:45 pmThere is evidence that the New Testament contained the Tetragrammaton until somewhere in the second century when some insideous efforts replaced that name with "Lord."
No there's not. There are a few copies of the Septuagint that have the Tetragrammaton where most manuscripts have "lord," but there's nothing similar for the New Testament.
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:45 pmAnd surely Jesus would have pronounced the name when reading from the Old Testament (Hebrew Scriptures) where the Tetragrammaton appeared 7,000 times. He would not have avoided pronouncing that name of his Father. (John 17:6,26
That's the danger of bringing your theology to the Bible rather than reading what the Bible itself has to say.
My preferred pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #83

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to Difflugia in post #83]

You speak about "what the Bible itself has to say." So am I. If you go back to the original languages and the earliest manuscripts, you will find that what I am saying is true. You are going by possibly one version of the Scriptures. I go back to the Hebrew and Greek contained in the earliest manuscripts available.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #84

Post by Difflugia »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:11 pm You speak about "what the Bible itself has to say." So am I. If you go back to the original languages and the earliest manuscripts, you will find that what I am saying is true. You are going by possibly one version of the Scriptures. I go back to the Hebrew and Greek contained in the earliest manuscripts available.
There are no manuscripts of the Greek New Testament with the Tetragrammaton or anything else in place of "Lord" or "God," including in otherwise direct translations of Old Testament quotations.
My preferred pronouns are he, him, and his.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

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Post by onewithhim »

Difflugia wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:56 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:11 pm You speak about "what the Bible itself has to say." So am I. If you go back to the original languages and the earliest manuscripts, you will find that what I am saying is true. You are going by possibly one version of the Scriptures. I go back to the Hebrew and Greek contained in the earliest manuscripts available.
There are no manuscripts of the Greek New Testament with the Tetragrammaton or anything else in place of "Lord" or "God," including in otherwise direct translations of Old Testament quotations.
There are indeed. There are manuscripts right up to the present day of the Tetragrammaton in the Old Testament, in the Hebrew language, over 7,000 times. Look at any Jewish Bible and they are all there, in the Hebrew. Jesus would have pronounced God's name, seeing it in quotes from the Hebrew Scriptures.

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Re: Did Jesus and his disciples tell others about Jehovah?

Post #86

Post by Eloi »

Eloi wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 10:02 am I know of people who are deniers, who see things in front of their eyes and still don't accept them. I also know of mockers, who do not care about the truth and only try to play with people who talk to them about something. I still know people who are so self-convinced that they have a superior vision to the rest of the world that they will never hear o see anything else but what their own mind shows them. Some of those are so confused that they will think that this supposed "visionism" is revealed in their demagoguery and mistreatment to the persons with whom they speak, as if it were a competition of fallacies ... because they do not belong to the world of the truth and their behavior will be according to the world to which they belong.

The Scriptures clearly state that Jehovah is only the Father of Jesus Christ. As I mentioned earlier, Jesus told the Jews here:

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

Not clear enough for you? Or, can't you see something that is so obvious in those words of Jesus?

I also mentioned to you when Jesus referred to Jehovah's temple in Jerusalem as his Father's house in John 2:13-17. And again: Not clear enough for you? Or, can't you see something that is so obvious in those words of Jesus? ... or maybe you are that kind of persons I mention before.

Those passages are just a couple of examples. The NT is full of them, and I opened this topic to show them. Whoever thinks clearly will be able to notice reality, if he belongs to the truth.

See this other example:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham and of Isaac and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified his Servant, Jesus, whom you handed over and disowned before Pilate, even though he had decided to release him.

PD: I am not here to play games with the kind of persons I mention before, so, do not expect a response from me to that kind of nonsense comments; I am not here competing with anyone to determine who is more demagogue than the other ... although some believe that this is "being an apologist", because it is what it is sold in Christendom, by some of their theologians .
Regardless of elucidating the question of whether or not Jehovah's name appeared in the autographs of the Christian Greek Scriptures, Jehovah (the only true God spoken of in the Hebrew Scriptures) is the God whom Jesus Christ and all his disciples of the first century were referred to in his public ministry. Christians do not worship any other God than Jehovah.

Acts 5:30 The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake. 31 God exalted this one as Chief Agent and Savior to his right hand, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are witnesses of these matters, and so is the holy spirit, which God has given to those obeying him as ruler.

There is no reason in the entire universe why someone who claims to be a Christian should not know what the name of God (the God and Father of Jesus) is, and use it every time he talks about God.

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