The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #111

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:40 am Genesis 1:28 wrote:
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
This is the reason man was created, it is the description of our job assignment.
I agree. And, from what I understand, this commandment includes producing the fruit of the Spirit as well, since man is both a physical and spiritual being.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:40 am Man was created to eventually replace the angels who fail at this job.

I don't get the angel part. To me, Adam and Eve were humans like all the rest of us. The fact that they failed to produce good spiritual fruit doesn't mean they couldn't be renewed, or that others couldn't produce it.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #112

Post by myth-one.com »

Good Morning Cms.
cms wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:06 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:40 am Genesis 1:28 wrote:
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
This is the reason man was created, it is the description of our job assignment.
I agree. And, from what I understand, this commandment includes producing the fruit of the Spirit as well, since man is both a physical and spiritual being.
Man is only a physical being like the other animals:
Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 wrote:For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
myth-one.com wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:40 am Man was created to eventually replace the angels who fail at this job.
cms wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:06 pm I don't get the angel part. To me, Adam and Eve were humans like all the rest of us. The fact that they failed to produce good spiritual fruit doesn't mean they couldn't be renewed, or that others couldn't produce it.
Yes, you are correct that Adam and Eve were humans. And humans are not angels.

Mankind is being groomed to replace the angels who were originally assigned to care for the earth.

If Adam & Eve choose to participate in replenishing the earth forever, they will be born again of the Spirit as immortal angels to perform that job.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #113

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #112]

Mankind is not being groomed to replace any angels. God is in heaven, in the spirit realm, with the angels and Christ, and he gave the earth to humans. (Psalm 115:16)

That was his plan in the beginning and it hasn't changed. Humans will live on the earth forever---the same ones, with life everlasting. Jesus gave up his life as a human so that we could retain our own human lives and live on the earth for all time.

"The meek will possess the earth and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth and they will live forever on it." (Psalm 37:11,29)

There is no scriptural basis in thinking that angels were given the earth in the beginning, or that humans are somehow replacing angels. No basis whatsoever.

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #114

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:32 am Man is only a physical being like the other animals:
Myth one, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness,faithfulness, gentleness, and self control."
Those that delight in the law of the Lord "shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither and whatever he does shall prosper."
Regardless, we are expected to produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and and thrown into the fire."

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Re: The Atonement

Post #115

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:56 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #112]

Mankind is not being groomed to replace any angels. God is in heaven, in the spirit realm, with the angels and Christ, and he gave the earth to humans. (Psalm 115:16)

That was his plan in the beginning and it hasn't changed. Humans will live on the earth forever---the same ones, with life everlasting. Jesus gave up his life as a human so that we could retain our own human lives and live on the earth for all time.

"The meek will possess the earth and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth and they will live forever on it." (Psalm 37:11,29)

There is no scriptural basis in thinking that angels were given the earth in the beginning, or that humans are somehow replacing angels. No basis whatsoever.
Genesis 1:1 wrote:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Jude 1:6 wrote:And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Due to the angels abandoning the earth, the earth reached the following status:

Genesis 1:2 wrote:And the earth was without form, and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep... (Genesis 1:1-2)

In verse three of Chapter 1, God begins a re-creation of a decimated earth by turning the lights back on:

Genesis 1:3 wrote:And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Instead of creating more immortal angels and risk being stuck with more rebels eternally, God created man a little lower than the angels.

Man was created with two differences between him and the angels -- knowledge of good and evil and body type -- physical versus spiritual.

Speaking of those who shall inherit the Kingdom of God in the world to come, Jesus states:

Luke 20:36 wrote:Neither can they die any more, for they are equal unto the angels...

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Re: The Atonement

Post #116

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:50 pm
onewithhim wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:56 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #112]

Mankind is not being groomed to replace any angels. God is in heaven, in the spirit realm, with the angels and Christ, and he gave the earth to humans. (Psalm 115:16)

That was his plan in the beginning and it hasn't changed. Humans will live on the earth forever---the same ones, with life everlasting. Jesus gave up his life as a human so that we could retain our own human lives and live on the earth for all time.

"The meek will possess the earth and they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace....The righteous will possess the earth and they will live forever on it." (Psalm 37:11,29)

There is no scriptural basis in thinking that angels were given the earth in the beginning, or that humans are somehow replacing angels. No basis whatsoever.
Genesis 1:1 wrote:In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Jude 1:6 wrote:And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Due to the angels abandoning the earth, the earth reached the following status:


The angels didn't abandon the earth....they abandoned heaven.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #117

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:31 pm The angels didn't abandon the earth....they abandoned heaven.
Satan and his angels who went to and wared in heaven:
Revelation 12:7 wrote:And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Were defeated and cast back to the earth which they had abandoned:
Revelation 12:9 wrote:And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Jude 1:6 wrote:And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. (Jude 1:6)

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Re: The Atonement

Post #118

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #117]

Satan and his angels started out in heaven, before they rebelled. The angels that rebelled looked down at human women and decided to leave heaven and live with the women in physical bodies. They still had access to heaven and went back there when the Great Flood occurred, though their progeny died in the deluge. Centuries later Michael threw Satan out of heaven down to the earth, that being where the big issue of God's Sovereignty was playing out. Satan knew he had a short period of time, so he really tried to screw things up even more, and he has. (Revelation 12:12) World wars started then, and there hasn't been a year that has been peaceful worldwide since. That is what happened, and, loosely, the timeline. I can be more specific if you want.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #119

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:18 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #117]

Satan and his angels started out in heaven, before they rebelled. The angels that rebelled looked down at human women and decided to leave heaven and live with the women in physical bodies.
So the asexual angels lusted after the human women?

How does that work?

And by "live with the Women in physical bodies" do you mean that the rebelling angels will become physical bodies and live with the women?

Or, are you simply stating that the women have physical bodies?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #120

Post by Eloi »

myth-one.com wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 11:14 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 9:18 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #117]

Satan and his angels started out in heaven, before they rebelled. The angels that rebelled looked down at human women and decided to leave heaven and live with the women in physical bodies.
So the asexual angels lusted after the human women?

How does that work?
(...)
That works in the same way that Jehovah's representative and the other two angels who went to see Abraham ate and drank by his side.

Gen. 18:1 Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. 2 He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. 3 Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. 4 Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed; then recline under the tree. 5 Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves. Then you may go on your way.” At this they said: “All right. You may do as you have spoken.”
6 So Abraham hurried to the tent to Sarah and said: “Quick! Get three measures of fine flour, knead the dough, and make loaves of bread.” 7 Next Abraham ran to the herd and chose a tender and good young bull. He gave it to the attendant, who hurried to prepare it. 8 He then took butter and milk and the young bull that he had prepared and set the food before them. Then he stood by them under the tree as they were eating.

Isn't a physical body with a mouth and digestive system all that is needed to eat and drink physical food? Do you think that when the angels used physical bodies in pre-Flood times, they used bodies without what they needed to live among humans?

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