The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #351

Post by myth-one.com »

Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 12:39 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #2]
That is not what Jesus says there.
Heirs to everlasting life under the New Testament Covenant are those that believe in Jesus as their Savior.
Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 12:39 pm Obviously, the people Jesus is referring to, must have believed something like what you believe; that it was enough that they believed in him and used his name. Jesus clearly says NO, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH...he mentions "doing the will of his Father" (Matt. 7:21) which obviously not all believers do.
Believers will be known and recognized by their works. Although their works do not save them.
Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 12:39 pm Besides that, if you have not need to be careful, then you are not following Jesus' advice when he said “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able" ... I just quoted his own words in the same post.
Good for you, Eloi, perhaps He understands your point.

I think God will honor either choice -- believe or don't believe.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #352

Post by Brightfame52 »

Gal 6:14 Crucified to the world !

Gal 6:14

14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Paul makes a Christ Glorifying statement here about the Cross of Christ, One of it's many accomplishments and effects to them He died for. He states "by whom " meaning Christ, His Work, the world is crucified unto me, and I have been crucified unto the world. Notice that this was not by His Freewill, or His act of believing and so forth, but by a Person, Christ and His Cross accomplishment and effect for him

Paul boasted about the powerful effects of Christ crucified, something that is non existent in our day of Apostasy !

Paul is saying that the entire world system in all its Glory, but in opposition to God, is dead or destroyed in it's power to attract him; it has no influence or power over Paul, no appeal to him .And I to the world. Paul is similarly dead to the desires and attractions of the world, for he serves Christ as his new Master ESV Note on Gal 6:14

This is largely due to the God Given Faith each person that Christ died for will receive by from the Holy Spirit at New Birth and this is overcoming Faith of the world 1 Jn 5:4

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This Faith is an effect of the Cross to all whom Christ died and imparts His Victory to !5

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Re: The Atonement

Post #353

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, . . .
According to Jesus Christ's statement in John 3:16, believers shall have everlasting life:
John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
And in Acts 16:31 Paul wrote:Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, . . .

You say it is a lie that one must believe in Christ to gain eternal life.

Jesus and Paul say that one must believe in Jesus to gain eternal life.

Why should anyone believe you over Jesus and Paul?

Can you provide any proof to support your belief?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #354

Post by Revelations won »

Greetings to all,

I would like to introduce a concept regarding the atonement of Jesus Christ that we all should seriously consider.

Its is duly observed that the Romans crucified many others on the cross as well.

Did Christ therefore suffer no more than others have likewise suffered for our sins?

Unless I missed some response, it appears that no one has an answer for the above question.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #355

Post by Revelations won »

Dear Onewithhim,

You claim that neither Christ or God his Father have a body of flesh and bone.

It appears that you have chosen to deny the following scriptures.

Matthew 28:
9
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

(Are you claiming that his chosen apostles who held the risen Lord by the feet and worshipped him are worshipping a false god?)

10
Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.


Luke 24:
37
But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40
And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41
And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42
And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43
And he took it, and did eat before them.


( In the above the matter was clearly settled when Christ testified "]Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have

(Inasmuch as Christ has a body of flesh and bones as he so verily testifies and is the first fruits of the resurrection, then obviously all who are resurrected will also have a resurrected body of flesh and bones!)

KJV 20:
16
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

My response: We should also remember that ALL POWER WAS GIVEN HIM ON EARTH AND IN HEAVEN. Having said that it is obvious that HE WAS GOD THE SON. For all judgment was given unto him. I would ask the question “ are men to be judged by GOD or Man?”

KJV John 21:
25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

I submit that the testimony of Jesus the Christ regarding his resurrected body of "flesh and bones" is a thousand time superior to your man made doctrine.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #356

Post by myth-one.com »

Revelations won wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:59 am Greetings to all,

I would like to introduce a concept regarding the atonement of Jesus Christ that we all should seriously consider.

Its is duly observed that the Romans crucified many others on the cross as well.

Did Christ therefore suffer no more than others have likewise suffered for our sins?

Kind regards,
RW
Jesus undoubtedly suffered more than some and less than some others who were crucified.

Jesus was born as a man, and it is appointed unto all mankind once to die:
Hebrews 9:27 wrote:And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Since death is appointed to all mankind as a consequence of being born as a man, then Christ's suffering and death, while required for the atonement, is not what saves anyone -- regardless of the amount of suffering involved. What is important is that He died as a sinless adult human under the Old Testament Covenant between God and mankind. As such, He became the only human to ever become an heir to everlasting life under that covenant. The wages of sin is death, but He never sinned, thus He will inherit everlasting life under the original testament.

Note that two "deaths" are described in the Bible. But true death is everlasting, and since every human will be resurrected or made alive again after their first appointed death, then our appointed death is not a death at all, since it is not permanent. Thus, the Bible typically describes the first "death" as sleep, slumber, or rest.

Jesus died His first, or appointed, death on the cross. Since that death was appointed to Him as a consequence of being human, it saved no one.

But after the 6,000 year rule of man over the earth, the covenant between God and mankind will be probated.

The last will and testament at that time will be the New Testament of the Bible -- not the original testament under which Jesus lived and died.

Under the New Testament, those who believe in Jesus as their Savior will inherit everlasting life.

But what is the origin of this everlasting life? Where did it come from?

It came from the only person who qualified for everlasting life under the original testament. That one person was Jesus Christ, and that was the purpose of His birth, life, and death as a human.

Under the Old Testament, one had to remain sinless to gain everlasting life, as the wages of sin is death. But under the New Testament, sin has no affect on our salvation -- as salvation has become the gift of God through Jesus Christ.

Jesus gifted His just inheritance under the original testament to those who believe in Him as their Savior under the New Testament Covenant. The New Testament became effective and the original testament vanished away when the testator died on the cross.

That's atonement.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #357

Post by Brightfame52 »

More on Gal 6:14 What do you Glory in ?

Gal 6:14

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

The word Glory here is the greek word kauchaomai:

to glory (whether with reason or without)

2) to glory on account of a thing

3) to glory in a thing

It also is translated boast 2 Cor 7:14 or rejoice Phil 3:3

What do you and i boast in today ? How many of us truly boast or Glory in the Cross of Jesus Christ, His Person and Work and it's saving effects which are everlasting !

What I have observed of many of us is that we Glory not in The Person and Work of Christ and His Saving accomplishments for those He died, but in the flesh. Some of us by the teaching of the freewill of man, others by our ethnicity, particularly ethnic jews. Yes ethnicity is of the flesh, and Paul stated this about having confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3-6

3For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless

Notice what Paul calls confidence and trust in the flesh in vs 5

#1 Circumcised the eighth day [flesh]

#2 Being of the Tribe of Benjamin [flesh]

#3 Of the people of Israel [flesh see Rom 9:8]

#4 being a hebrew of Hebrews [flesh]

#5 being a pharisee [flesh]

Remember what Jesus told a well established pharisee of highest rank Jn 3:6

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

#6 Religious zeal in vs 6 all religious zeal apart from a Spiritual Revelation of the Gospel is of the flesh !

#7 Good reputation for religion before men, being blameless before men in the sight of men without Gospel revelation is [the flesh]

Paul thought being circumcised as a full blooded jew, of the tribe of Benjamin, was a gain to him, the word gain is the greek word kerdos
and means advantage.


He thought being an ethnic jew gave him advantage before God over other people who were not jewish. He thought it gave him advantage in having a relationship with God and salvation !

Many today think by being a ethnic jew that its an advantage, that it ensures special favor with God, even Salvation favor, this is confidence in the flesh, boasting in the flesh, no way around it !

That word confidence as confidence in the flesh Phil 3:3 also means trust, trusting in the flesh.

Like the Pharisee Lk 18:9, this Pharisee would have trusted in the same things Paul did in Phil 3:5-6 and that's nothing more than trusting in ourselves, idolatry !

What is our Glory today ?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #358

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, . . .
According to Jesus Christ's statement in John 3:16, believers shall have everlasting life:
John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
How can one gain everlasting life without believing in Jesus?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #359

Post by Brightfame52 »

Christ Promised success !

John 12:31-33

31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Also Isa 53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Christ by His Death, His Work, ensures the Faith and Repentance [conversion] of all He died for, else He lied when He promised:

"And I, if I be lifted up[His Cross] from the earth, will draw all men unto me".

This said signifying what death [and effects] He should die, meaning He witnessed to the saving and converting effects it should have, which was foretold in Isa 53:10-11

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Meaning He shall see the success and good issue of His Finished Work and see it convert sinners to God ! David wrote once Ps 51:13

Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Those He shall draw unto Himself because of His Death or having been lifted up from the Earth, are His Offspring Isa 53:10, and He shall see them return to God, and be satisfied. Peter preached this saving effect of Christ Death here 1 Pet 2:24-25

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

So Isa 53:10-11; Jn 12:31-33, and 1 Pet 2:24-25, all proclaim the same blessed Saving Truth of the Effects of Christ's Finished Saving Work of the Cross, anything different is a false gospel !

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Re: The Atonement

Post #360

Post by Brightfame52 »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:43 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, . . .
According to Jesus Christ's statement in John 3:16, believers shall have everlasting life:
John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
How can one gain everlasting life without believing in Jesus?

Thanks in advance.
Those who Christ died for will be given eternal life and to believe in Him. Thats part of the effects of the atonement death of Christ. Phip 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;


When its says its given in behalf of Christ, it denotes, its given to believe in Him because of His death for the one its given. So faith/believing isn't an condition to get salvation, but a byproduct of already having been given Salvation on behalf of Christ.

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