The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

According to your posts you declare that mortality was not part of God’s plan for us.

If that were the case, then there would have been no need for Christ to be foreordained before the foundations of the world were even laid to be the savior of all mankind.
RW

Christ was not foreordained before the foundation of the planet. The "world" is the world of mankind alienated from God, the one spoken about at IJohn 2:15-17. Christ was foreordained after Adam rebelled and the world of alienated mankind came into being. Is that too deep to comprehend?

[Brightfame52]

More on Forgiveness in relation to Redemption !

As we continue to consider the Eternal Redemption Christ has procured for them He died for, we find that He has obtained for them Eternal Forgiveness, for His Death hath delivered them from the Penalty of all their sins. All who are such blessed shall receive a Knowledge [Spiritual] of their Forgiveness Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Folks Forgiveness of sins is Salvation, a portion of it ! That means you never have to worry about dying in your sins Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

When He says He will remember them no more, means He will never lay them to their Charge as to condemn them.

Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here means His Chosen People, whether jew or gentile, again He will give them a Knowledge of their forgiveness of sins !

Lk 24:46-47

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Forgiveness of sins should preached IN HIS NAME !

What does that mean , In His Name ? The word name here is the greek word onoma:

name: univ. of proper names

2) the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.

3) persons reckoned up by name

4) the cause or reason named: on this account, because he suffers as a Christian, for this reason

The Ideal here is Repentance and Remission of sins have been accomplished by the Person and Work of Jesus Christ for His People. Both are given by Him on account of His finished work. In this scripture Repentance nor forgiveness of sins are commands or duties, but procured and bestowed blessings because of Christ's Finished work. And all that He died for will receive from Him Repentance and the knowledge of the forgiveness of their sins, as Peter puts it in Acts 5:31 see also Acts 11:18 Where it's made clear that Gentiles are included in being given Repentance unto Life !

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #301]

The Christ of scripture was 1 Pet 1:20


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In fact He was in the Mind and Purpose of God slain from the foundation of the world, which I believe means before the foundation of the world Rev 13:8


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #301]

The Christ of scripture was 1 Pet 1:20


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In fact He was in the Mind and Purpose of God slain from the foundation of the world, which I believe means before the foundation of the world Rev 13:8


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I said---the "world" is not the planet itself or even the creation of humans. It is the world of alienated humans that began AFTER Adam rebelled and caused sin and death to "reign" on the planet. Jesus was foreordained after that event and before Cain became the first of the "world" alienated from God. It was after Adam's disobedience that God purposed for Jesus to be slain.

[Brightfame52]

A Ransoming

This Eternal Redemption is also a ransoming ! The blood was the ransom price, redemption is the effect or result. Remember the term ransom is used here Mk 10:45

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Tim 2:6

Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Now in Mk 10:45 the word for ransom is lytron and means:

the price for redeeming, ransom

a) paid for slaves, captives

b) for the ransom of life

2) to liberate many from misery and the penalty of their sins

In 1 Tim 2:6 the word is antilytron:

) what is given in exchange for another as the price of his redemption, ransom

This definition zero's in on the fact that a Life has been given for a life.

Once the ransom price has been accepted, then Justice has been served for the ransomed, all the penalties must cease by Divine Justice. Those ransomed are freed from all penalties. One such penalty was death, all facets of it. To be ransomed is to be set free from death

Hosea 13:14

I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Sin brought Death Rom 6:23

23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

But, all for whom Christ gave Himself a Ransom in place of They as a matter of Justice must now Receive Life, Spiritual Life, because spiritual death no longer can be a penalty for their sins, They have by the blood of Christ liberated or set free from the penalty of sin.

Now that Christ has paid the ransom price, death must be abolished in behalf of those persons 2 Tim 1:10

10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This word abolished is the greek word katargeō and means:

to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative

a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency

b) to deprive of force, influence, power

2) to cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish

a) to cease, to pass away, be done away

b) to be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one

c) to terminate all intercourse with one

Because of the ransom blood and the redemption through the blood of Christ, death is caused to cease, its done away with.

Since death is abolished, Life must be communicated, Life is the antithesis of death. Spiritual Life must be communicated to all for whom Christ gave Himself a Ransom. This Life is given by the Spirit in a New Birth. The New Birth is an evidence that Christ's ransom price of His Life, His blood has satisfied all the Justice of God for our sins. This Life that God gives is Eternal Life, an immortal Life, and this Life of immortality is brought to Light by the Gospel 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
4

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #301]

The Christ of scripture was 1 Pet 1:20


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In fact He was in the Mind and Purpose of God slain from the foundation of the world, which I believe means before the foundation of the world Rev 13:8


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I said---the "world" is not the planet itself or even the creation of humans. It is the world of alienated humans that began AFTER Adam rebelled and caused sin and death to "reign" on the planet. Jesus was foreordained after that event and before Cain became the first of the "world" alienated from God. It was after Adam's disobedience that God purposed for Jesus to be slain.

Yeah right !

[otseng]

Yeah right !

9. No unconstructive one-liners posts are allowed in debates.

Kindly refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to debate and/or simply express agreement / disagreement or make other frivolous remarks.

For complimenting or agreeing use the Thank button. For anything else use PM.

[Brightfame52]

The Blood of the Covenant !

Scripture is clear that Christ's Blood is Covenant Blood ! Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

That word testament is the greek word diathēkē and is also translated covenant :


a disposition, arrangement, of any sort, which one wishes to be valid, the last disposition which one makes of his earthly possessions after his death, a testament or will

Notice that the word used has more to do with the last disposition or testament, the bequeathing of the possessions after the death of the Testator or the one making a will.

As far as a agreement between parties are concerned, another word for covenant is used ,it is the word suntithemi lit., "to put together, which means to agree or assent.

But the prominent feature in the Covenant Blood of Christ is its accomplishments, what it actually does for and unto those for which it was shed..

Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

We want to look at some of the Accomplishments of the Blood of the Covenant unto its beneficiaries, those whom Christ has ordered the bestowal of the purchased possessions upon them.

Now one of the accomplishments is that His Covenant Blood abolished the need for further imprisonment.

Lets look at Isa 42:7

To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

First lets look at vs 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;


Thats speaking about His Blood being given in Covenant for the People, and one of the accomplishments vs 7 is to bring out the Prisoners from the prison house. Note that it does not say to offer them a way out if they decide to accept it, but to actually bring them out !

That word phrase bring out in vs 7 is the hebrew word yatsa and literally means:

to cause to go or come out, bring out, lead out

Now what Prison house is meant here ? The Prison house of sin ! God hath concluded all under sin ! Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Now the All here is speaking of the elect, and when they sinned in Adam, God concluded them under sin. Now this word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:


to shut up together, enclose

a) of a shoal of fishes in a net

2) to shut up on all sides, shut up completely As in a prison Emphasis mine !

This was part of the Death we incurred when God told Adam, in the day that you eat, ye shall surely die. Well imprisonment and enslavement to sin is the outcome.

And one of the Accomplishments of Christ Covenant Blood, it bring the Prisoners out of Prison, out of captivity to sin..

This is not accomplished by anything the prisoner did, their repentance, their faith, or none of that, but accomplished by the Blood of the Covenant !

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #301]

The Christ of scripture was 1 Pet 1:20


19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In fact He was in the Mind and Purpose of God slain from the foundation of the world, which I believe means before the foundation of the world Rev 13:8


8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

I said---the "world" is not the planet itself or even the creation of humans. It is the world of alienated humans that began AFTER Adam rebelled and caused sin and death to "reign" on the planet. Jesus was foreordained after that event and before Cain became the first of the "world" alienated from God. It was after Adam's disobedience that God purposed for Jesus to be slain.

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

I quote from your response:

“Revelations won wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:02 am
Dear Onewithhim,

According to your posts you declare that mortality was not part of God’s plan for us.

If that were the case, then there would have been no need for Christ to be foreordained before the foundations of the world were even laid to be the savior of all mankind.
RW


You responded:

“Christ was not foreordained before the foundation of the planet. The "world" is the world of mankind alienated from God, the one spoken about at IJohn 2:15-17. Christ was foreordained after Adam rebelled and the world of alienated mankind came into being. Is that too deep to comprehend?”


My response: I referenced:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

The bible does not state that Christ was forordained after Adam’s transgression. According to 1 Peter 1:20 it is very clear that Christ was indeed forordained BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE WORLD WERE EVEN LAID.

Peter makes it very clear that this foreordination was in place even before Adam made any decision while in the Garden.

Are you therefore claiming that mortality was not part of God’s plan for all mankind?

Kind regards,
RW