The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #421

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:06 am [Replying to myth-one.com in post #418]

Yes you condition salvation/atonement on mans choice. Thats works, mans religion. Bible doesnt teach that !
Then who makes the choice for us?

Do you consider accepting a gift work?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #422

Post by Brightfame52 »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #421]

Atonement is of God, Salvation is of God, you didnt know that ? And if you pay attention to my posts, you should already know my position !

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Re: The Atonement

Post #423

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:03 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #421]

Atonement is of God, Salvation is of God, you didnt know that ? And if you pay attention to my posts, you should already know my position !
Who decides that you are saved?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #424

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:03 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #421]. . . you should already know my position !

It appears you believe that no man can affect their own salvation.

So that "whosoever believeth" may or may not be saved -- regardless of what John 3:16 states.

Who decides who will and who will not be saved?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #425

Post by Revelations won »

To all responding parties,

My OP on this topic is :

“To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW”

We should remember that the atonement is a gift from God our savior. It is not forced on us. We as individuals have the God given agency to accept or reject it. The atonement is an absolute part of God’s eternal plan of redemption , salvation and exaltation for all of his children.

We should remember that we as sinful mortals we are incapable of atoning for our sins or for others sins.

As I understand it, the atonement required and infinite and atoning sacrifice that could only be provided by the “lamb of God without blemish and without spot. The only person that could qualify for this assignment was the sinless and only begotten in the flesh son of God even Jesus the Christ.

Now this raises a question. Did his suffering on the cross alone qualify to meet this criteria?

After all the Romans nailed many others on the cross such as those also crucified be side him.

We must remember that they also suffered in like manner?

When carefully examined, we should observe that there was much more to his agony and suffering above and beyond that which he suffered on the cross.

Is it possible that his greatest suffering was in the garden wherein in the greatest agony, he prayed unto the Father that “he might not partake of this bitter cup, nevertheless, not as I will, but according to the will of the Father”. Therein was his most agonizing suffering and submission to the Father’s will performed. The scripture states “That he sweat as it were great drops of blood”.

I would ask the question, how intense would one’s agony and suffering be that he would sweat and bleed at every pore to atone for the sins of the world?

In addition to this agonizing suffering in the garden, he was whipped or beaten and had a crown of painful thorns brutally mashed onto his head.

Next he was nailed to the cross to initiate this final phase of the atonement.

God the Father clearly knew and understood that his only begotten son in the flesh must needs face the fulfillment of this great and last sacrifice portion of the atonement alone! As the scripture states he withdrew his spirit from him in this greatest hour of agony. Herein Jesus the Christ not only suffered the agony of the cross, but the overwhelming resurgence of his agony in the garden added to that suffering immensely! All this combined was more than his body and heart could endure. He died from a broken heart.

The above is my take regarding the atonement of Jesus the Christ.

For a deeper understanding of the mighty atonement one might consider this testimony of the risen Lord:

“ Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I asmite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your bsufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
For behold, I, God, have asuffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
Which asuffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might bnot drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.”

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #426

Post by myth-one.com »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:24 am The above is my take regarding the atonement of Jesus the Christ.

For a deeper understanding of the mighty atonement one might consider this testimony of the risen Lord:

“ Therefore I command you to repent—repent, lest I asmite you by the rod of my mouth, and by my wrath, and by my anger, and your bsufferings be sore—how sore you know not, how exquisite you know not, yea, how hard to bear you know not.
For behold, I, God, have asuffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
Which asuffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might bnot drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.”

Kind regards,
RW
Christians suffer pain because of being Christians:
Philippians 1:29 wrote:For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
So the atonement does not take away suffering.

Jesus' suffering was the dark side's way of trying to make Him fail in His mission.

His mission was to live a sinless human life and become an heir to everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant between God and the nation of Israel.

He would then offer His inheritance to any human who accepted Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins.

That's how humans get atonement from the wages of their sins. It is a gift of God through Jesus Christ's efforts to live a sinless human life regardless of whatever tremendous sufferings and temptations He had to endure.

He successfully accomplished His mission, and now whosoever believeth in Him can freely accept the inheritance He earned as a free gift offered to us under the New Testament Covenant:

John 3:16 wrote:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Romans 6:23 wrote:For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There was no human sacrifice. His death was appointed as a result of Him being born as a human.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #427

Post by Brightfame52 »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:10 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri Jun 17, 2022 2:03 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #421]. . . you should already know my position !

It appears you believe that no man can affect their own salvation.

So that "whosoever believeth" may or may not be saved -- regardless of what John 3:16 states.

Who decides who will and who will not be saved?
For the thousandeth time, God through Christ determines who is saved, who is lost. Those God determined to save, He sent Christ into the world to atone for their sins. Those who God determined not to save, will unfortunately die in their sins. Thats Gods decision, not mine, not yours, not anyone else. So please dont keep asking me the same question and please pay attention to what Im posting.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #428

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 pm. . . you should already know my position !
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:10 am It appears you believe that no man can affect their own salvation.

So that "whosoever believeth" may or may not be saved -- regardless of what John 3:16 states.

Who decides who will and who will not be saved?
Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 pmFor the thousandeth time, God through Christ determines who is saved, who is lost.
God has already made that determination. God will save everyone who believeth in Jesus Christ.

They will be saved by being born again of the Spirit as spiritual bodied beings which live forever.
Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 pmThose God determined to save, He sent Christ into the world to atone for their sins.
No, sin is no longer in the determination of who will be saved. Those saved will be those that believeth, not necessarily those that are free from sin. Those that believeth will accept Jesus Christ's gift of everlasting life. Everlasting life is Jesus' inheritance under the old Testament Covenant. The wages of sin was death, but He never sinned, thus He is an heir to everlasting life under that covenant.
Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 1:39 pm Those who God determined not to save, will unfortunately die in their sins. Thats Gods decision, not mine, not yours, not anyone else.
No, it's every human's personal decision to decide between everlasting life or everlasting death. It is "out of God's hands." God has no choice but to honor His covenant. He has to grant everlasting life to whosoever believeth and everlasting death to those who do not. It's a legal issue.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #429

Post by Brightfame52 »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #428]

Its Gods decision whether or not a human being goes to heaven or hell. Why do you think Christ died for sinners ? It wasnt the sinners decision for Christ to die. Aperson is saved according to the will of God Gal 1:4

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

If you ask you, it would read

4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of man:

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Re: The Atonement

Post #430

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Sun Jun 19, 2022 5:11 pm [Replying to myth-one.com in post #428]

Its Gods decision whether or not a human being goes to heaven or hell.
The Bible contains two testaments, covenants, or wills between God and mankind.

Covenants or wills require the following two parties:

Testator – This is the party who creates the covenant. He is giving away his asset(s) by executing the instrument.

Beneficiaries – These are the people defined in the covenant who may receive some asset from the estate.

The two parties to the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are God and Mankind.

<===========================>

God set up the biblical covenants, so He is the testator.

Individuals from mankind are the potential beneficiaries.

The benefit received by beneficiaries of the New Testament Covenant will be the everlasting life which awaits Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ has everlasting life waiting for Him due to His becoming an heir under the Old Testament Covenant. That Covenant was between God and the nation of Israel. The wages of sin was the second death, Jesus never sinned, thus Jesus became the only qualified heir under that covenant -- as all other potential beneficiaries sinned and are headed for the second death.

The only requirement to becoming a beneficiary under the New Testament Covenant is to believe in Jesus as one's Savior from the wages of their sins.

<=====================================>

The original covenant had a fault in that no one had ever qualified as an heir.

The Word, who created everything, was instructed to be made flesh as a Jew so that He would be a party to the original covenant as a possible beneficiary. He did so and became an heir to everlasting life under that covenant by living a sinless human life. God then allowed The Word to create a new covenant with Jesus' inheritance as the benefit received by those who qualify as heirs under that new covenant.

Under the original testament, salvation was contingent upon one's good works to fulfill the laws of God.

Under the New Testament Covenant, we are no longer under the law, but simply the grace of God.

God is Love.

At this point, God no longer makes the decision concerning each individuals eternity as you have claimed repeatedly. God has created a just and fair will and must honor it because God cannot lie.

He set everlasting life and everlasting death before us, and recommended that we choose life. But each of us must make our own individual choice after being educated as to the two options.

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