The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #20]

I stand by what I said. If anyone cares to look up the scriptures I have cited in numerous posts, he can see that what I am saying is fact.

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

You said: "Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam.

My response: Your statement that we "inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled)." is utterly false. This is nothing but a false claim which you are clearly unable to defend. But feel free to do so as I find this claim most amazing. Please produce first the genetic makeup of Adam before the fall and next provide the genetic makeup of Adam after the fall....I can hardly wait to see your scientific proof of your claim!.

Dear onewithhim, you made the above claim regarding Adams genetic makeup. I asked you to provide scientific proof of your claim. You have provided nothing to support your wild genetic claim. If you cannot answer directly, then please provide evidence from a previous topic giving post number and date. If you cannot provide proof, then this claim of yours amounts to nothing but untruth and something from a figment of your imagination.

Let us hear a truthful response from you on your claim.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear onewithhim,

You said: "Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam.

My response: Your statement that we "inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled)." is utterly false. This is nothing but a false claim which you are clearly unable to defend. But feel free to do so as I find this claim most amazing. Please produce first the genetic makeup of Adam before the fall and next provide the genetic makeup of Adam after the fall....I can hardly wait to see your scientific proof of your claim!.

Dear onewithhim, you made the above claim regarding Adams genetic makeup. I asked you to provide scientific proof of your claim. You have provided nothing to support your wild genetic claim. If you cannot answer directly, then please provide evidence from a previous topic giving post number and date. If you cannot provide proof, then this claim of yours amounts to nothing but untruth and something from a figment of your imagination.

Let us hear a truthful response from you on your claim.

Kind regards,
RW

Dear RW,

Of course I can't prove what Adam's genetic makeup was. I use my brain to REASON. (Isaiah 1:18, KJV) Romans 5:18 and 19 tells us what happened to cause Adam's progeny to die.

"As through one trespass the result to all men was condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift cam upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

How was a previously perfect man, destined to live forever, able to pass on perfection to his children after he was condemned? Wouldn't a scientific mind say it's in the DNA? Adam was condemned after he sinned, so he was damaged somehow to not be able to pass on perfection to his offspring. Isn't it logical to think that his DNA was involved? A damaged person cannot pass on perfection and life.

Regards to you,
OWH

[Revelations won]

Dear OWH,

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:34 am
Dear onewithhim,

You said: "Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam.

My response: Your statement that we "inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled)." is utterly false. This is nothing but a false claim which you are clearly unable to defend. But feel free to do so as I find this claim most amazing. Please produce first the genetic makeup of Adam before the fall and next provide the genetic makeup of Adam after the fall....I can hardly wait to see your scientific proof of your claim!.

Dear onewithhim, you made the above claim regarding Adams genetic makeup. I asked you to provide scientific proof of your claim. You have provided nothing to support your wild genetic claim. If you cannot answer directly, then please provide evidence from a previous topic giving post number and date. If you cannot provide proof, then this claim of yours amounts to nothing but untruth and something from a figment of your imagination.

Let us hear a truthful response from you on your claim.

Kind regards,
RW



Dear RW,

Of course I can't prove what Adam's genetic makeup was. I use my brain to REASON. (Isaiah 1:18, KJV) Romans 5:18 and 19 tells us what happened to cause Adam's progeny to die.


"As through one trespass the result to all men was condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift cam upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

How was a previously perfect man, destined to live forever, able to pass on perfection to his children after he was condemned? Wouldn't a scientific mind say it's in the DNA? Adam was condemned after he sinned, so he was damaged somehow to not be able to pass on perfection to his offspring. Isn't it logical to think that his DNA was involved? A damaged person cannot pass on perfection and life.

Regards to you,
OWH

Thank you for your response. My response is as follows:

Scientific proof requires evidence and verified testing to prove a theory to be true or false. If all scientific discovery were based on just reasoning we would have a heck of a mess. In the first place one would have to establish that the “reasoning” in the first place was correct and supported.

In the instant matter your deductive reasoning is not supported, but in fact the evidence to the contrary is supported as will be shown hereafter.

1. Your theory is that God intended Adam and Eve to remain forever in the Garden of Eden.

2. Fact: Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil or understanding the consequences thereof for they had no experience or foundation upon which to base their decisions for as the scripture says, “their eyes were not yet opened”

3. Your premise is based on your railing accusation that Adam rebelled against God in choosing to partake of the fruit. I would heartily disagree with your accusations against Adam. One must remember that Eve had partaken of the fruit first and that God had commanded them to multiply and replenish the earth. So Adam had the difficult choice of remaining a lone man in the garden of eden and be unable to be with his wife and have no posterity or he could made a choice to have his eyes opened and remain with Eve outside the garden and fulfill God’s commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

4. Further your argument is faulty since you claim that ones DNA became faulty by making a wrong decision. On the basis of your thinking it would be apparent that according to your premise Eves DNA had already become damaged. It is therefore very obvious that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that if they had any offspring that their posterity would all have faulty or “damaged DNA”.

5. As further evidence I raise the issue of Enoch who was taken into heaven without tasting death…….

6. You claim that anyone who ”inherited this so called “Damaged gene or DNA from Adam cannot be made perfect”

Jesus Christ was begotten in the flesh from God the Father and from a mortal mother (Mary). Mary would also have inherited this so called damaged DNA and any of her offspring would also have inherited this damaged DNA and therefore could not become perfect.

Hebrews 5:
8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

As I see it you obviously according to your claim in opposition to the scriptures that Jesus Christ was not made perfect and is not the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
Kind regards,
RW

[myth-one.com]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".
Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?
What does the atonement do or does not do?
What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?
What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?
Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?
I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.
Kind regards,
RW

The Bible contains two testaments, covenants, or wills between God and mankind. The inheritance under both covenants is everlasting spiritual life.

Regarding mankind, the wages of sin is death – where sin is disobeying the commandments of God.

Adam & Eve both sinned, and are headed for the second death. In addition, death passed unto all of their progeny due to the sin of that one man Adam.

So what can be done to “atone” for mankind’s sins so that individual humans may inherit everlasting life?

It makes logical sense that the wages of man's sin is death and that the reward for not sinning is everlasting life, because man is being groomed to replace the angels who rebelled against God and left their first estate, the earth, to war against God in heaven. In creating replacements for these rebels, God wants to rule out the flaw that caused the originals to fail. That flaw was sin. Also, why risk making more immortal beings directly, and risk being stuck with more rebels for eternity?

Thus , humans who sin will die as mortals, never to live again by their own choice. That is, they chose to sin, and the wages of sin is death.

But God admitted that there was a fault in the original covenant in that no one was able to resist sin. Therefore, no new angels would be created under that covenant.

A new better covenant was needed, and God thus created the New Testament Covenant:

The Word created everything ever created, so the earth was His creation. How could the Word create a new testament to solve the fault in the original covenant?

Covenants or wills require the following two parties:

1. Testator – This the person who writes the covenant. He is giving away his asset(s) by executing the instrument.
2. Beneficiaries – These are the people defined in the testament who will receive some asset from the estate.

The two parties to the Old and New Testaments of the Bible are God and Mankind. God is the Testator and Individuals of mankind are the possible beneficiaries.

As a man, Jesus Christ could become a beneficiary under the original covenant between God and man and be an heir to everlasting life by living a sinless human life under the original testament between God and mankind.

Jesus did became the first and only man to ever become a beneficiary under the original testament by fulfilling the requirement of never sinning. His name is written in the Book of Life as an heir to everlasting life.

By doing so, He now has a guaranteed asset which God the Father then allowed Jesus to offer as a free gift to those humans who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

But He has only one everlasting life to offer, so how can He offer it to more than one human sinner?

Here’s the biblical “legalese” by which God allowed this one asset to be distributed to multiple qualifying beneficiaries:

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Notice in verse 11 above that this is call an atonement received by us (believers) from Jesus Christ.

So the atonement was done by Jesus and given to us.

Jesus atoned for something. What did He have to atone for? Or it could be viewed as the Word's atonement -- as Jesus was the Word made flesh.

Was Jesus or the Word atoning for the “fault” in the original testament that prevented any other man or woman from being perfectly sin free? After all, that is what He fixed:

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth (Hebrews 9:15-17)

Anyways, the New Testament became the last will and testament when Jesus (the testator) died on the cross.

His death did not save us, as the first death is appointed to all mankind.

What saves us or atones for our sins is that instead of accepting His justly earned inheritance of everlasting life, He freely gives it away to those of us who accept Him as our Savior.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

Upon being born again as everlasting spiritual bodied angels, the second death has no power over believers. We can be cast into the lake of fire repeatedly – even frolic or surf on its flames without any harm.

The New Testament Covenant will be probated starting at the Second Coming:

And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me... (Revelation 22:12)

Every human whose name is written in the Book of Life will be resurrected into everlasting spiritual bodied life:

Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. (Colossians 3:24)

[Revelations won]

Dear myth-one.com,

Thank you for your response. I was a little curious however to know what you mean by the term “spiritual bodied angels” or “spiritual bodied life”.

Do you mean bodies of flesh and bone?

Could you explain this concept in clear detail on what kind of bodies you think we will have in the resurrection?

“Upon being born again as everlasting spiritual bodied angels, the second death has no power over believers. We can be cast into the lake of fire repeatedly – even frolic or surf on its flames without any harm.”

“Every human whose name is written in the Book of Life will be resurrected into everlasting spiritual bodied life:”

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear OWH,

Revelations won wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:34 am
Dear onewithhim,

You said: "Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam.

My response: Your statement that we "inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled)." is utterly false. This is nothing but a false claim which you are clearly unable to defend. But feel free to do so as I find this claim most amazing. Please produce first the genetic makeup of Adam before the fall and next provide the genetic makeup of Adam after the fall....I can hardly wait to see your scientific proof of your claim!.

Dear onewithhim, you made the above claim regarding Adams genetic makeup. I asked you to provide scientific proof of your claim. You have provided nothing to support your wild genetic claim. If you cannot answer directly, then please provide evidence from a previous topic giving post number and date. If you cannot provide proof, then this claim of yours amounts to nothing but untruth and something from a figment of your imagination.

Let us hear a truthful response from you on your claim.

Kind regards,
RW



Dear RW,

Of course I can't prove what Adam's genetic makeup was. I use my brain to REASON. (Isaiah 1:18, KJV) Romans 5:18 and 19 tells us what happened to cause Adam's progeny to die.


"As through one trespass the result to all men was condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift cam upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

How was a previously perfect man, destined to live forever, able to pass on perfection to his children after he was condemned? Wouldn't a scientific mind say it's in the DNA? Adam was condemned after he sinned, so he was damaged somehow to not be able to pass on perfection to his offspring. Isn't it logical to think that his DNA was involved? A damaged person cannot pass on perfection and life.

Regards to you,
OWH

Thank you for your response. My response is as follows:

Scientific proof requires evidence and verified testing to prove a theory to be true or false. If all scientific discovery were based on just reasoning we would have a heck of a mess. In the first place one would have to establish that the “reasoning” in the first place was correct and supported.

In the instant matter your deductive reasoning is not supported, but in fact the evidence to the contrary is supported as will be shown hereafter.

1. Your theory is that God intended Adam and Eve to remain forever in the Garden of Eden.

2. Fact: Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil or understanding the consequences thereof for they had no experience or foundation upon which to base their decisions for as the scripture says, “their eyes were not yet opened”

3. Your premise is based on your railing accusation that Adam rebelled against God in choosing to partake of the fruit. I would heartily disagree with your accusations against Adam. One must remember that Eve had partaken of the fruit first and that God had commanded them to multiply and replenish the earth. So Adam had the difficult choice of remaining a lone man in the garden of eden and be unable to be with his wife and have no posterity or he could made a choice to have his eyes opened and remain with Eve outside the garden and fulfill God’s commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

4. Further your argument is faulty since you claim that ones DNA became faulty by making a wrong decision. On the basis of your thinking it would be apparent that according to your premise Eves DNA had already become damaged. It is therefore very obvious that if Adam had not partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that if they had any offspring that their posterity would all have faulty or “damaged DNA”.

5. As further evidence I raise the issue of Enoch who was taken into heaven without tasting death…….

6. You claim that anyone who ”inherited this so called “Damaged gene or DNA from Adam cannot be made perfect”

Jesus Christ was begotten in the flesh from God the Father and from a mortal mother (Mary). Mary would also have inherited this so called damaged DNA and any of her offspring would also have inherited this damaged DNA and therefore could not become perfect.

Hebrews 5:
8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

As I see it you obviously according to your claim in opposition to the scriptures that Jesus Christ was not made perfect and is not the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.
Kind regards,
RW

How can you say that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil? That is blatantly false. There is nothing in the account that leads us to believe that they were blindly innocent of all knowledge. Would you send your children off into new territory without advising them of the lay of the land, so to speak? We have no reason to think that Jehovah did not inform A&E about what to expect and how to avoid any difficulties. We can't say that Jehovah did not have long informative conversations with them. He had met with Adam in the garden even long before Eve was created. Do you think they just talked about how cute panda bears were? Let's be reasonable. You cannot say how much Adam did or didn't know, as you will say of me. Since God is love, and presented as such in the Bible, we would have to surmise that He would warn his creation about any evil that may confront them, as well as the best way to live and be happy.

When they rebelled, they knew full well what they were doing, otherwise God would not bring judgment upon innocent, child-like people. The Scripture says that "Adam was not deceived." (I Timothy 2:14) He knew what he was doing and that it would bring death upon them. (And surely he would have had another woman created for him, had he refused to take the fruit.)

[myth-one.com]

Dear myth-one.com,

Thank you for your response. I was a little curious however to know what you mean by the term “spiritual bodied angels” or “spiritual bodied life”.

Do you mean bodies of flesh and bone?

Could you explain this concept in clear detail on what kind of bodies you think we will have in the resurrection?

“Upon being born again as everlasting spiritual bodied angels, the second death has no power over believers. We can be cast into the lake of fire repeatedly – even frolic or surf on its flames without any harm.”

“Every human whose name is written in the Book of Life will be resurrected into everlasting spiritual bodied life:”

Kind regards,
RW

Good morning Revelations Won,

Two body types are described in the Bible, the natural and the spiritual:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Each of the two body types require a separate and distinct type of birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

The natural body comes first and is then followed by the spiritual body for believers in Christ:

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

They are different and are never merged together at anytime in the scriptures!

Jesus confirms that they do not mix:

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:39)
All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and those who believe in Jesus will be born again as spiritual bodies when Jesus returns!

So “spiritual bodied angels” and “spiritual bodied life” have exclusively spiritual bodies.

They are not composed of any flesh and bones!

Human beings must be born again of the Spirit to become spiritual bodied beings in the Kingdom of God. This occurs at the Second Coming when we are born again of the Spirit and resurrected to everlasting life.

[JoeyKnothead]

Howdy all y'all in in the lands of TD&D. I mostly try to leave this part of the site alone, but I've come to love me a good bunch of y'all, y'all wacky theists. Heck, I've done got where I don't think y'all're all Satan himself. I've come to learn all y'all, and all the rest of us, we're just all of us normal ol humans, atrying our best to sort out this thing called life. And Republicans? Whew, how bout that bunch? Anyway, let's leave them alone for now, and pile in on myth-one.com...

...
[Background data? - JK]
The Bible contains two testaments, covenants, or wills between God and mankind. The inheritance under both covenants is everlasting spiritual life.
[End background data]

Regarding mankind, the wages of sin is death – where sin is disobeying the commandments of God.

Adam & Eve both sinned, and are headed for the second death. In addition, death passed unto all of their progeny due to the sin of that one man Adam.

I get the theology behind the first bit there, "ya sin, ya done messed up".

What I don't get is how Adam & Eve were expected to know the difference between right and wrong, or sin and not sin. Doesn't the story present that they only gained such knowledge after having eaten from the tree about it? (We'll dispense with any notion about trees and metaphors.)

It just seems to me that Adam, Eve, or both were so clueless (innocently ignorant) about the ramifications, that they should be given some leniency about the knowledge deal.

What say you, if were you to say?

Do me a favor and respond with a quote so I can know you've brought class into session I only came here cause I saw you'd posted.

[myth-one.com]

Howdy all y'all in in the lands of TD&D. I mostly try to leave this part of the site alone, but I've come to love me a good bunch of y'all, y'all wacky theists. Heck, I've done got where I don't think y'all're all Satan himself. I've come to learn all y'all, and all the rest of us, we're just all of us normal ol humans, atrying our best to sort out this thing called life. And Republicans? Whew, how bout that bunch? Anyway, let's leave them alone for now, and pile in on myth-one.com...

Welcome to the jungle, my friend.

You know I can’t leave things alone.

I watched day one of the congressional hearing on the Jan 6 coup attempt today.

Aside from their two senators with character, the Republicans chose not to participate in trying to save our democracy. Are they still using the “Conservative, Christian, Family Values” slogan? Haven’t heard it in awhile.

Thank God for the small group of heroes who withstood pain and verbal abuse for hours to prevail over the mob. A few stout hearted people always seem to be around when we need them!

The Bible contains two testaments, covenants, or wills between God and mankind. The inheritance under both covenants is everlasting spiritual life.

Regarding mankind, the wages of sin is death – where sin is disobeying the commandments of God.

Adam & Eve both sinned, and are headed for the second death. In addition, death passed unto all of their progeny due to the sin of that one man Adam.

I get the theology behind the first bit there, "ya sin, ya done messed up".
What I don't get is how Adam & Eve were expected to know the difference between right and wrong, or sin and not sin. Doesn't the story present that they only gained such knowledge after having eaten from the tree about it? (We'll dispense with any notion about trees and metaphors.)

It just seems to me that Adam, Eve, or both were so clueless (innocently ignorant) about the ramifications, that they should be given some leniency about the knowledge deal.

What say you, if were you to say?

Do me a favor and respond with a quote so I can know you've brought class into session I only came here cause I saw you'd posted.

Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments:

For sin is the transgression of the law.

However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin:

To him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Originally, man did not know good from evil as he had no law.

Upon being commanded to not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, man had one, and only one, law or commandment! Man was now set up to commit one, and only one sin. It was the only commandment he knew, and thus the only one he could violate. Satan saw to it that man did indeed violate this first commandment that God gave him.

The important thing was not the fruit, but that it was a commandment from God.

God certainly made it understandable as to the consequences of disobeying His commandment because God is just and true:

Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

It’s interesting that the word “sin” really doesn’t appear in the Bible until Genesis 4:7.

Notice that God did not suggest or recommend that man not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He commanded it -- and that is the definition of a law in the Bible. And sin is the breaking of God's laws.

The real choice being made was between choosing to obey or reject the commandments of God.

Adam and Eve showed that they would disobey God.

After they made that decision, it turned out that God had more than one commandment, and their eyes were opened to them.

Do me a favor and respond with a quote so I can know you've brought class into session

Hope the above is sufficient. God bless quotes.

I only came here cause I saw you'd posted.

My list of followers has now risen to 1.