The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[myth-one.com]

Jesus was not an imperfect man like every other man.

So God created every other man imperfect?

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

You and God seem to be at odds with each other.

No....once again....God created our first parents perfect, without sin. They lost their perfection when they deliberately rebelled against Jehovah.

Do you think that Adam and Eve sinning wasn't in God's plan?

That is correct. That wasn't in God's plan.

God created the possibility of mankind sinning by commanding them not to eat from the tree of knowledge.

So that possibility was considered in His plan.

[Brightfame52]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #291]

Sounds crazy. The possibility

[onewithhim]

Jesus was not an imperfect man like every other man.

So God created every other man imperfect?

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

You and God seem to be at odds with each other.

No....once again....God created our first parents perfect, without sin. They lost their perfection when they deliberately rebelled against Jehovah.

Do you think that Adam and Eve sinning wasn't in God's plan?

That is correct. That wasn't in God's plan.

God created the possibility of mankind sinning by commanding them not to eat from the tree of knowledge.

So that possibility was considered in His plan.

He was giving them the opportunity to show that they loved and respected him. The same way a loving parent would say to a child to not touch the cookie jar because that is off-limits with dinner coming up soon. The parent would have confidence that the child would obey because the child respected the parent. The parent has the right to make rules, and he knows how the child will be benefited. The command for Adam to not touch the one tree was not nefarious or unreasonable. It was just one tree out of many. It afforded A&E the opportunity to show their respect for their Creator.

[Brightfame52]

Christ death accomplished Redemption for His People !

About Redemption, God does not call the redeemed to return to Him[Repentance] in order to be redeemed, but because they are already redeemed Isa 44:22

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

Thats done solely by the Blood of Christ Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

God through Christ hath already redeemed Israel, His Chosen in Christ !

Isa 43:1

But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

Isa 44:23

Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

Lk 1:68

Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

These are not referring to Israel according to the Flesh, Abraham's physical descendants, because they in themselves are not the Children of God Rom 9:8

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

But this Israel are all those Chosen in Christ before the Foundation of the world, The Seed of Abraham Gal 3:16

Also its the same with reconciliation, God does not call the reconciled in order to be reconciled, but because they are already objectively reconciled by the Death of God's Son. Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:18-20

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

So the Gospel call goes out to the already redeemed or the already reconciled, now is time for them to receive the Knowledge and comfort of them..

[Brightfame52]

The Lord Jesus Christ of whom Adam was a Type, took the place of a countless multitude of God's Elect, who were given to Him by His Father [Jn 17:2;6:37], and He died on the cross in behalf of them, even though many had yet to be born, and through Him, they have been Redeemed, Justified, Forgiven, Sanctified, Saved and made Righteous by His Blood; For of a Truth they were accepted in the Beloved and Blessed with all Spiritual Blessings [not in their actual persons as of yet, but in their Covenant Head] before time began, in the Lamb of God which was slain from the foundation of the world. Rom 8:29-30; Eph 1:3-7; 2 Tim 1:9; Rev 13:8. For the Spirit in no uncertain terms declares " The works were finished from the foundation of the world" Heb 4:3 ! This reference is regarding creation, but its a parallel with the finished work of Redemption.

[Brightfame52]

Christ Death accomplished and obtained Eternal Redemption for us ! Heb 9:12

12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us

Who are the Us ? That would be the Seed of Abraham of whom He came and took on the Seed of Heb 2:16

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Now for this Seed, He obtained Eternal Redemption for !

The word obtained here is the greek word heuriskō and means:


to find out for one's self, to acquire, get, obtain, procure

Here are a couple of other translations:

WNT and once for all entered the Holy place, taking with Him not the blood of goats and calves, but His own blood, and thus procuring eternal redemption for us.

This word procuring also means to secure :

ISV Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with his own blood he went into the Holy of Holies once for all and secured our eternal redemption.

The word origin of procure is defined :

"bring about, cause, effect,"

So, The point is , Christ just did not obtain Eternal Redemption for us to merely have it as a possession, but that He would bring about redemptive results, effects.

You see, Heb 8-10 are Chapters describing to its readers the far Superior value of Christ's Priesthood over and above that of the Levitical Priesthood and its results and effects, which fade in comparison to what Christ accomplished with God with His Blood for His People.

So Christ obtained, procured an Eternal Redemption for us, The Seed of Abraham. And He is not stagnated with this redemption, but bequeaths it's benefits upon the Heirs. You see, He procured it for a Purpose !4

[Revelations won]

Dear Onewithhim,

According to your posts you declare that mortality was not part of God’s plan for us.

If that were the case, then there would have been no need for Christ to be foreordained before the foundations of the world were even laid to be the savior of all mankind.

You utterly fail to acknowledge the clear fact that Adam and eve’s eyes were not yet opened while in the garden of eve. In their innocent state they had no knowledge of knowledge of good or evil. They had absolutely NO knowledge of good or evil. Absolutely no experience while in the garden.

It appears that according to your posts that you set yourself up as a judge to damn and condemn Adam and Eve to Hell with no possibility of repentance.

I find this extremely bizarre that you and your man made doctrine have falsely limited the scope of Christs atonement to everybody except Adam.

You somehow seem to be blind to the fact that Eve partook of the fruit first and that Adam was faced with a dilemma of remaining as a lone man in the garden of eden and would not be able to fulfill the first commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

I therefore submit that father Adam, actually made a very good and wise choice which allowed each of us as spirit sons and daughters of God to receive physical bodies which would allow us to fulfill the God given power of agency to have this mortal experience and learn to overcome evil and like Christ “receive all that the Father hath”.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear Onewithhim,

According to your posts you declare that mortality was not part of God’s plan for us.

If that were the case, then there would have been no need for Christ to be foreordained before the foundations of the world were even laid to be the savior of all mankind.
RW

Christ was not foreordained before the foundation of the planet. The "world" is the world of mankind alienated from God, the one spoken about at IJohn 2:15-17. Christ was foreordained after Adam rebelled and the world of alienated mankind came into being. Is that too deep to comprehend?

[myth-one.com]

Dear Onewithhim,

According to your posts you declare that mortality was not part of God’s plan for us.

If that were the case, then there would have been no need for Christ to be foreordained before the foundations of the world were even laid to be the savior of all mankind.

I agree -- mankind was created as mortals.

You utterly fail to acknowledge the clear fact that Adam and eve’s eyes were not yet opened while in the garden of eve. In their innocent state they had no knowledge of knowledge of good or evil. They had absolutely NO knowledge of good or evil. Absolutely no experience while in the garden.

Sin is the transgression of God's laws, or commandments. However, to commit a sin, one must first recognize that the act is a sin. But Adam & Eve's eating of the tree of knowledge was counted against them, because it was a commandment from God, and the consequences of violating that law of God was clearly explained to them as death.

And the Lord God commanded the man saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

You somehow seem to be blind to the fact that Eve partook of the fruit first and that Adam was faced with a dilemma of remaining as a lone man in the garden of Eden and would not be able to fulfill the first commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.

Adam and Eve were both created as physical bodied beings, which could multiply and replenish the earth. One sinning and the other not sinning would have no affect on their progeny multiplying or replenishing the earth.

[Brightfame52]

Redemption is an act of God !

A fellow said once to me, that yes Jesus Christ has obtained Eternal Redemption for them, but that does not mean those who He died for receive it. How far from the Truth was that statement. Redemption requires action to be done by the one doing the redeeming or He has not accomplished redemption, He has not accomplished anything if those He died to redeem are not actually redeemed.

Lets look again at Heb 9:12

12Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

The word redemption here is the greek word lytrōsis:

ransoming, redemption

2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Notice that one of the definitions is deliverance from the penalty of sin.

The Eternal Redemption of Heb 9:12, for the US the writer Identifies himself with, as to whom Christ obtained Eternal Redemption, He has obtained for them Eternal Deliverance from the penalty of what their sins deserve.

Paul says like this in Eph 1:7

7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

All whom Christ died for, have Eternal Forgiveness, even when they are by nature as others children of wrath ! Thats because this forgiveness is according to the riches of His Grace !

So one of the many acts that Christ obtained for them He died for is they all are Eternally delivered from the penalty of their sins, all of them, according to the Riches of His Grace, and this before they have any knowledge of it.