The Atonement

Exploring the details of Christianity

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Revelations won
Sage
Posts: 830
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:13 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 27 times

The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #341

Post by Brightfame52 »

It delivered us from wrath !

1 Thess 1:10

10And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Who is Paul speaking of here ? Lets look at vs 4-5

4Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake

He is writing to the Election of Grace. Those that Christ died for and rose again, and by that, He delivered God's Elect from the Wrath to come !

The wrath here is that vindicative punishment that the wicked, unbelievers will receive as Per Matt 25:46

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

2 Thess 1:8

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matt 25:41

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

We know Christ could not have died for those whom He will yet say these words unto, for He calls them cursed !

Now all for whom Christ did die have been redeemed from the curse of the Law, Christ being made a curse in their room and stead Gal 3:13

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The word for is the prep huper and means:

in behalf of, for the sake of

over, beyond, more than

more, beyond, over

So , for all those He died, God made Him a curse in behalf of them ! And this released them from the curse of the Law. Now the strength of sin being the law, no sin can they ever be condemned for ! He being made a curse for them, was their deliverance, their salvation from the wrath to come 1 Thess 5:9


9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rom 5:9

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 5

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #342

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote:So , for all those He died, God made Him a curse in behalf of them ! And this released them from the curse of the Law. Now the strength of sin being the law, no sin can they ever be condemned for ! He being made a curse for them, was their deliverance, their salvation from the wrath to come 1 Thess 5:9
No, that's not the way it works!

The wages for any sins is still being cast into the lake of fire and suffering one's second and everlasting death.

Jesus’ death on the cross was His first death. Every human ever born (including Jesus) will suffer their first death as we are mortal physical bodied creatures – which will die!
Hebrews 9:27 wrote:And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
The important thing is that Jesus is the only human to ever live a sinless human life before dying His first death!

Having done so, Jesus became the only human to ever qualify for everlasting spiritual bodied life under the original testament between God and man. That is, the wages of sin is the second death, but Jesus never sinned, thus He will inherit everlasting life as His inheritance under the Old Testament Covenant.

Every other human was headed for the second death in the lake of fire under the original covenant between God and mankind.

Jesus’ future inheritance belongs solely to Him, it is His possession, He owns it! And He is the only human that "hath immortality" as an inheritance. However, Jesus will not accept His inheritance, but freely offer it as a gift to humans who believe in Him as their Savior from the wages of their sins! This is codified in the New Testament Covenant as follows:

John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The everlasting life which believers in Jesus will be granted is that which Jesus earned by meeting the requirements to gain everlasting life under the Old Testament Covenant.

Thus, under the New Testament Covenant, salvation or atonement becomes a gift of God through Jesus Christ:
Romans 6:23 wrote:For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Once we receive this gift of everlasting life, we are eternally incapable of death. The second death has no power over anyone who is immortal! We can play in the lake of fire if we desire to do so.

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #343

Post by Brightfame52 »

It accomplished believers in Himself !

The Death of Christ, it accomplished for all those He died for, for them to become believers in Him, yes that was one of God's Purposes behind it. Jn 3:14-17

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, but believing on Christ is the purposed result and effect of the Death of Christ for all He died for and are believing [present tense] His death delivers them He died for from unbelief. The Holy Spirit applies the merits of Christ death [give life]upon all He died for, convincing them of sin [an effect of new birth] because by nature, they believe not on Him Jn 16:8-9

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

Brightfame52
Sage
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2022 5:33 am
Location: In the heavenlies in Christ
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: The Atonement

Post #344

Post by Brightfame52 »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #342]

Yes I believe that is how it works, and I explained to you why.

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #345

Post by myth-one.com »

Brightfame52 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, . . .
Here is how Jesus Christ put it:
John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Christianity divides mankind into two groups -- believers and nonbelievers.

According to Jesus Christ's statement in John 3:16, Believers shall have everlasting life.

And nonbelievers will perish.

If Jesus states that whosoever believeth in Him will have everlasting life, is He lying?

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #346

Post by Eloi »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:04 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, . . .
Here is how Jesus Christ put it:
John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Christianity divides mankind into two groups -- believers and nonbelievers.

According to Jesus Christ's statement in John 3:16, Believers shall have everlasting life.

And nonbelievers will perish.

If Jesus states that whosoever believeth in Him will have everlasting life, is He lying?
What you say is not the complete truth on the matter. Jesus also spoke of believers who were deceiving themselves (Mat.7:21-23).

Surely no believer wants to be that class. How do you think that can be avoided?

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #347

Post by myth-one.com »

Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:14 am
myth-one.com wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:04 am
Brightfame52 wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:36 am False teachers have made believing on Christ in these scriptures something man must do or perform as a condition to gain eternal life which is a lie, . . .
Here is how Jesus Christ put it:
John 3:16 wrote:For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Christianity divides mankind into two groups -- believers and nonbelievers.

According to Jesus Christ's statement in John 3:16, Believers shall have everlasting life.

And nonbelievers will perish.

If Jesus states that whosoever believeth in Him will have everlasting life, is He lying?

What you say is not the complete truth on the matter.
Jesus said it, not me.
Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:14 am Jesus also spoke of believers who were deceiving themselves (Mat.7:21-23).

Surely no believer wants to be that class. How do you think that can be avoided?
Whosoever believeth shall have everlasting life.

I can't find the word "believe" in Matthew chapter 7.

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #348

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2]

So, do you think that these MANY guys here:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Luke 13:23 Now a certain man said to him: “Lord, are those who are being saved few?” He said to them: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able, 25 when once the householder has got up and locked the door, and YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Sir, open to us.’ But in answer he will say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from.’ 26 Then YOU will start saying, ‘We ate and drank in front of you, and you taught in our broad ways.’ 27 But he will speak and say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’

... do not exist? Or, do you think that those MANY guys Jesus mentions were not believers?

Be careful, don't be one of those who honestly thinks they are, but they really aren't.

myth-one.com
Savant
Posts: 7079
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:16 pm
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 85 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #349

Post by myth-one.com »

Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:55 am [Replying to myth-one.com in post #2]

So, do you think that these MANY guys here:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Luke 13:23 Now a certain man said to him: “Lord, are those who are being saved few?” He said to them: 24 “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able, 25 when once the householder has got up and locked the door, and YOU start to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Sir, open to us.’ But in answer he will say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from.’ 26 Then YOU will start saying, ‘We ate and drank in front of you, and you taught in our broad ways.’ 27 But he will speak and say to YOU, ‘I do not know where YOU are from. Get away from me, all YOU workers of unrighteousness!’

... do not exist? Or, do you think that those MANY guys Jesus mentions were not believers?
The many and the nonbelievers are one and the same. People can claim to be believers for purposes other than gaining everlasting life.
Eloi wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 11:55 am Be careful, don't be one of those who honestly thinks they are, but they really aren't.
I have no need to be careful. I don't even understand what you're trying to say.

It's simple -- believers shall have everlasting life while nonbelievers shall perish.

Eloi
Banned
Banned
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:31 pm
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 213 times
Contact:

Re: The Atonement

Post #350

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2]
That is not what Jesus says there. He said those people would tell him how convinced they were to be with him... just like many today, and you. You can be as convinced as you want in your own mind, but be just your own fantasy. Honesty is not enough.

Obviously, the people Jesus is referring to, must have believed something like what you believe; that it was enough that they believed in him and used his name. Jesus clearly says NO, THAT'S NOT ENOUGH...he mentions "doing the will of his Father" (Matt. 7:21) which obviously not all believers do.

Besides that, if you have not need to be careful, then you are not following Jesus' advice when he said “Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell YOU, will seek to get in but will not be able" ... I just quoted his own words in the same post.

Post Reply