The Atonement

[Revelations won]

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

To all,

In my OP I asked 5 simple questions. To make it easy for everyone I will ask those questions one at a time:

What does the atonement do or does not do?

I look forward to your responses.

Kind regards,
RW

It has been explained quite well already. How can the Bible be any clearer? "As through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, so too through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is their being declared righteous for life. For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous....To what end? So that just as sin ruled as king with death, so also grace might rule as king through righteousness leading to everlasting life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 5:18,19,21)

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

Thank you for your response, but you still did not answer the question. "What does the atonement do or not do"?
You claim that by the choice of one person many were made sinners.
I would ask you how many were made sinners?
And what sin or sins did that man make many others commit?

My position is that mankind will be PUNISHED FOR THEIR OWN SINS AND NOT FOR ADAMS TRANSGRESSION.

Let's hear your response.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear onewithhim,

Thank you for your response, but you still did not answer the question. "What does the atonement do or not do"?
You claim that by the choice of one person many were made sinners.
I would ask you how many were made sinners?
And what sin or sins did that man make many others commit?

My position is that mankind will be PUNISHED FOR THEIR OWN SINS AND NOT FOR ADAMS TRANSGRESSION.

Let's hear your response.

Kind regards,
RW

Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam. Something perfect can't come from something that is damaged. We die because of that. Now, the way out of that conundrum is to take the gift that Jehovah is giving us---the ransom paid for our non-deliberate sins by the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Yes, he died for OUR sins. We can't help many of them. (We CAN desist from carrying out DELIBERATE sins---sins that we know are against God's laws and yet we do them anyway, like serious badness of great proportion such as fornication, murder, idolatry, etc.) Jesus didn't die for deliberate sins, but for unintentional sins or sincere weakness-at-the-moment sins (like me slapping my mother, for instance, and then feeling sorry afterward).

"If we sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left." (Heb.10:26)

Jesus paid for our inherited sin, but not intentional sin, as is clear from the verse above.

All we have to do is accept that and then follow as closely as we can in Jesus' footsteps. (I Peter 2:21)

.

[William]

To all true Christians

Informal fallacy

there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Atonement meaning = "the action of making amends for a wrong or injury."

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

How so?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

Atonement meaning = "the action of making amends for a wrong or injury." it does that. What it does not do is whatever is outside of what it does do.

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What "full benefits"?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

That would depend on the action of making amends for a wrong or injury...which action is being atoned for?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

Probably. The internet is a great device for doing stuff like that.

[Revelations won]

My understanding is that since the atonement of Jesus Christ lies at the very core and essence of the salvation offered to all mankind, it is of utmost importance that we all should understand what was required of he who provided the atonement. We should clearly understand the details of how and what is required of us to receive the full benefit of the atonement of Jesus Christ. We should also clearly understand what the consequences are for us if we fail to repent and prepare ourselves to qualify for the blessings of the atonement.


I present the following which when properly understood can give one a very clear overview of the atonement:

Romans 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


In a nut shell the following describes my “take” on the atonement:

Amulek testifies that the word is in Christ unto salvation—Unless an atonement is made, all mankind must perish—The whole law of Moses points toward the sacrifice of the Son of God—The eternal plan of redemption is based on faith and repentance—Pray for temporal and spiritual blessings—This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God—Work out your salvation with fear before God. About 74 B.C.

1 And now it came to pass that after Alma had spoken these words unto them he sat down upon the ground, and aAmulek arose and began to teach them, saying:
2 My brethren, I think that it is impossible that ye should be ignorant of the things which have been spoken concerning the coming of Christ, who is taught by us to be the Son of God; yea, I know that athese things were taught unto you bountifully before your dissension from among us.
3 And as ye have desired of my beloved brother that he should make known unto you awhat ye should do, because of your afflictions; and he hath spoken somewhat unto you to prepare your minds; yea, and he hath exhorted you unto faith and to patience—
4 Yea, even that ye would have so much faith as even to aplant the word in your hearts, that ye may try the experiment of its goodness.
5 And we have beheld that the great question which is in your minds is whether the word be in the Son of God, or whether there shall be ano Christ.
6 And ye also beheld that my brother has proved unto you, in many instances, that the aword is in Christ unto salvation.
7 My brother has called upon the words of aZenos, that redemption cometh through the Son of God, and also upon the words of Zenock; and also he has appealed unto Moses, to prove that these things are true.
8 And now, behold, I will atestify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and lastasacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.
11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay.
12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.
13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the claw of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.
15 And thus he shall bring asalvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.

17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to all upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;
18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is amighty to save.
19 Yea, humble yourselves, and continue in aprayer unto him.
20 Cry unto him when ye are in your fields, yea, over all your flocks.
21 Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening.
22 Yea, cry unto him against the power of your aenemies.
23 Yea, cry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness.
24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.
25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.
26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.
27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your ahearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.
28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need—I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.
29 Therefore, if ye do not remember to be acharitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men.
30 And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have areceived so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.
31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful acrisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth eal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.
37 And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ;
38 That ye contend no more against the Holy Ghost, but that ye receive it, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in dthanksgiving daily, for the many emercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
39 Yea, and I also aexhort you, my brethren, that ye be bwatchful unto prayer continually, that ye may not be led away by the ctemptations of the devil, that he may not overpower you, that ye may not become his subjects at the last day; for behold, he rewardeth you no good thing.
40 And now my beloved brethren, I would exhort you to have patience, and that ye bear with all manner of afflictions; that ye do not revile against those who do cast you out because of your exceeding poverty, lest ye become sinners like unto them;
41 But that ye have patience, and bear with those afflictions, with a firm hope that ye shall one day rest from all your afflictions.

Yours kindly,
RW

[JehovahsWitness]

My understanding is that since the atonement of Jesus Christ lies at the very core and essence of the salvation offered to all mankind, it is of utmost importance that we all should understand what was required of he who provided the atonement. We should clearly understand the details of how and what is required of us to receive the full benefit of the atonement of Jesus Christ. We should also clearly understand what the consequences are for us if we fail to repent and prepare ourselves to qualify for the blessings of the atonement.


I present the following which when properly understood can give one a very clear overview of the atonement:

Romans 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


In a nut shell the following describes my “take” on the atonement:

Amulek testifies that the word is in Christ unto salvation—Unless an atonement is made, all mankind must perish—The whole law of Moses points toward the sacrifice of the Son of God—The eternal plan of redemption is based on faith and repentance—Pray for temporal and spiritual blessings—This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God—Work out your salvation with fear before God. About 74 B.C.

1 And now it came to pass that after Alma had spoken these words unto them he sat down upon the ground, and aAmulek arose and began to teach them, saying:
2 My brethren, I think that it is impossible that ye should be ignorant of the things which have been spoken concerning the coming of Christ, who is taught by us to be the Son of God; yea, I know that athese things were taught unto you bountifully before your dissension from among us.
3 And as ye have desired of my beloved brother that he should make known unto you awhat ye should do, because of your afflictions; and he hath spoken somewhat unto you to prepare your minds; yea, and he hath exhorted you unto faith and to patience—
4 Yea, even that ye would have so much faith as even to aplant the word in your hearts, that ye may try the experiment of its goodness.
5 And we have beheld that the great question which is in your minds is whether the word be in the Son of God, or whether there shall be ano Christ.
6 And ye also beheld that my brother has proved unto you, in many instances, that the aword is in Christ unto salvation.
7 My brother has called upon the words of aZenos, that redemption cometh through the Son of God, and also upon the words of Zenock; and also he has appealed unto Moses, to prove that these things are true.
8 And now, behold, I will atestify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and lastasacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.
11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay.
12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.
13 Therefore, it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice, and then shall there be, or it is expedient there should be, a stop to the shedding of blood; then shall the claw of Moses be fulfilled; yea, it shall be all fulfilled, every jot and tittle, and none shall have passed away.
14 And behold, this is the whole meaning of the law, every whit pointing to that great and last sacrifice; and that great and last sacrifice will be the Son of God, yea, infinite and eternal.
15 And thus he shall bring asalvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance.
16 And thus mercy can satisfy the demands of justice, and encircles them in the arms of safety, while he that exercises no faith unto repentance is exposed to the whole law of the demands of justice; therefore only unto him that has faith unto repentance is brought about the great and eternal plan of redemption.

17 Therefore may God grant unto you, my brethren, that ye may begin to exercise your faith unto repentance, that ye begin to all upon his holy name, that he would have mercy upon you;
18 Yea, cry unto him for mercy; for he is amighty to save.
19 Yea, humble yourselves, and continue in aprayer unto him.
20 Cry unto him when ye are in your fields, yea, over all your flocks.
21 Cry unto him in your houses, yea, over all your household, both morning, mid-day, and evening.
22 Yea, cry unto him against the power of your aenemies.
23 Yea, cry unto him against the devil, who is an enemy to all righteousness.
24 Cry unto him over the crops of your fields, that ye may prosper in them.
25 Cry over the flocks of your fields, that they may increase.
26 But this is not all; ye must pour out your souls in your closets, and your secret places, and in your wilderness.
27 Yea, and when you do not cry unto the Lord, let your ahearts be full, drawn out in prayer unto him continually for your welfare, and also for the welfare of those who are around you.
28 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I say unto you, do not suppose that this is all; for after ye have done all these things, if ye turn away the needy, and the naked, and visit not the sick and afflicted, and impart of your substance, if ye have, to those who stand in need—I say unto you, if ye do not any of these things, behold, your prayer is vain, and availeth you nothing, and ye are as hypocrites who do deny the faith.
29 Therefore, if ye do not remember to be acharitable, ye are as dross, which the refiners do cast out, (it being of no worth) and is trodden under foot of men.
30 And now, my brethren, I would that, after ye have areceived so many witnesses, seeing that the holy scriptures testify of these things, ye come forth and bring fruit unto repentance.
31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.
32 For behold, this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God; yea, behold the day of this life is the day for men to perform their labors.
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many witnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the night of darkness wherein there can be no labor performed.
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful acrisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
35 For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth eal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.
36 And this I know, because the Lord hath said he dwelleth not in unholy temples, but in the hearts of the righteous doth he dwell; yea, and he has also said that the righteous shall sit down in his kingdom, to go no more out; but their garments should be made white through the blood of the Lamb.
37 And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ;
38 That ye contend no more against the Holy Ghost, but that ye receive it, and take upon you the name of Christ; that ye humble yourselves even to the dust, and worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be in, in spirit and in truth; and that ye live in dthanksgiving daily, for the many emercies and blessings which he doth bestow upon you.
39 Yea, and I also aexhort you, my brethren, that ye be bwatchful unto prayer continually, that ye may not be led away by the ctemptations of the devil, that he may not overpower you, that ye may not become his subjects at the last day; for behold, he rewardeth you no good thing.
40 And now my beloved brethren, I would exhort you to have patience, and that ye bear with all manner of afflictions; that ye do not revile against those who do cast you out because of your exceeding poverty, lest ye become sinners like unto them;
41 But that ye have patience, and bear with those afflictions, with a firm hope that ye shall one day rest from all your afflictions.

Yours kindly,
RW

To all,

In my OP I asked 5 simple questions. To make it easy for everyone I will ask those questions one at a time:

What does the atonement do or does not do? ...


RW

So, in a nutshell...what is Atonement and what does it do and not do?

[onewithhim]

RW, are you including the Book of Mormon in this? That piece of rag doesn't have any say in our discussions. We're going by the Bible.

[Revelations won]

Dear JW,

You asked : "So, in a nutshell...what is Atonement and what does it do and not do?"

In a nutshell the infinite and eternal atonement that only Jesus Christ could provide allows mankind to obtain forgiveness of ones sins on condition of repentance. The great atonement is the plan of God the Father which was implemented long before the foundations of the earth were even laid. According to the Bible Our savior and redeemer was in fact foreordained to this very sacred mission.

We mortals are not capable of providing the great atonement which was his divine sacrifice according to God's foreordained plan. You should be fully aware that I cannot atone for your sins and you cannot atone for my sins, nor is any other fully mortal person capable of providing the infinite and eternal atonement that Christ, being the only begotten son of God in the flesh has provided.

The atonement is not based on quid pro quo, but is based on love and mercy.

The atonement as clearly explained in my last post shows that the atonement of Christ does not atone for unrepentant sins. We individually have a clear responsibility to first repent of our sins which then allows the atoning blood of Christ to apply and provide forgiveness of the repented sin.

Kind regards,
RW

[Revelations won]

Dear onewithhim,

You said: "Jesus paid for our sins, sins that we cannot help because we inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled). Because of Adam's rebellion he was on the road to death, as he was warned would happen if he disobeyed. He lost his perfection and the sin he carried on caused him to grow old and die before he was 1,000 years old. (A day to Jehovah.) We have the tendency to sin because of inheritance from Adam.

My response: Your statement that we "inherited the faulty genetic makeup of Adam (that he attained after he rebelled)." is utterly false. This is nothing but a false claim which you are clearly unable to defend. But feel free to do so as I find this claim most amazing. Please produce first the genetic makeup of Adam before the fall and next provide the genetic makeup of Adam after the fall....I can hardly wait to see your scientific proof of your claim!.

You next said: "Something perfect can't come from something that is damaged. We die because of that. Now, the way out of that conundrum is to take the gift that Jehovah is giving us---the ransom paid for our non-deliberate sins by the Son of God, Jesus Christ. Yes, he died for OUR sins.

My response: What you are saying here is that we cannot become perfect! Remember Christ commanded us to become perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Are you claiming that Christ asked us to do the impossible? As I understand it, you are teaching the doctrine that with God some things are not possible. Please explain.

Additionally the scriptures clearly demonstrate "that though he were a son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered, and being made perfect became the author of our salvation.

You next said: " We can't help many of them. (We CAN desist from carrying out DELIBERATE sins---sins that we know are against God's laws and yet we do them anyway, like serious badness of great proportion such as fornication, murder, idolatry, etc.) Jesus didn't die for deliberate sins, but for unintentional sins or sincere weakness-at-the-moment sins (like me slapping my mother, for instance, and then feeling sorry afterward).

"If we sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left." (Heb.10:26)

Jesus paid for our inherited sin, but not intentional sin, as is clear from the verse above."

My response: Your self imposed limitations on Christs atonement appear to not be in conformity with other scriptures. If everyone were to fully endorse your private interpretation, then there would be an extremely limited number who could qualify to be forgiven and saved. Out of the billions of Gods children how many do you thing will be saved. But to make it easier to calculate how many in the United States of America could be partakers of the salvation provided by Jesus Christ?


I look forward to your clear responses to the above.

Kind regards,
RW

[onewithhim]

Dear JW,

You asked : "So, in a nutshell...what is Atonement and what does it do and not do?"

In a nutshell the infinite and eternal atonement that only Jesus Christ could provide allows mankind to obtain forgiveness of ones sins on condition of repentance. The great atonement is the plan of God the Father which was implemented long before the foundations of the earth were even laid.

No, there is a great misunderstanding of what "the world" means, and the verse says "world" and NOT "earth." Jesus' ransom was planned before the foundations of the WORLD, and that means the world of mankind alienated from God, not the planet. It is the "world" that is talked about at I John 2:15-17. When Adam rebelled, the "world" had not started yet. It would begin with the birth of Cain. So when Adam disobeyed, Jehovah planned to provide a ransom for the world of mankind, and this was "before the foundation of the world" [alienated from God] that started with Cain. Jesus was not planned to redeem mankind before Adam failed to remain faithful to God. Only afterward. If Adam had remained faithful, Jesus would never have had to come to the earth.