The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #81

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2]
Thanks for your opinion. I just repeat what I have learned from the Word of God:

Rom. 5:12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned—. 13 For sin was in the world before the Law, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come.

1 Cor. 15:21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.

Do you accept what the Bible teaches?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #82

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:25 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:59 am Adam and Eve died for their own disobedience. Jehovah God directly punished them with death, just as he had warned them. The rest of humanity dies because of them, NOT because of a direct condemnation from God. We were sold to sin and death by our first parents.

Adam and Eve were not in any covenant in which mankind has subsequently been involved. Those pacts came into being precisely because of their disobedience. They only had to be obedient, and they would have lived forever together with all their descendants. All that was required of them was to let God decide for them what they could eat.
You're doing the same thing Adam & Eve did. You're blaming someone else for your sins.

They blamed each other and the serpent, and you're blaming them.
They deserve the blame. Their children could not help being marred by sin because Adam and Eve could not pass on perfection and sinlessness to their children, having become imperfect and sinful. It's in the genes. Their kids got what they could give them---sin and death.

Jehovah immediately set in motion a plan to remedy Adam's children's plight. All they have to do is accept Jesus' atonement sacrifice and do what he says. Simple.

.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #83

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:44 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:25 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:59 am Adam and Eve died for their own disobedience. Jehovah God directly punished them with death, just as he had warned them. The rest of humanity dies because of them, NOT because of a direct condemnation from God. We were sold to sin and death by our first parents.

Adam and Eve were not in any covenant in which mankind has subsequently been involved. Those pacts came into being precisely because of their disobedience. They only had to be obedient, and they would have lived forever together with all their descendants. All that was required of them was to let God decide for them what they could eat.
You're doing the same thing Adam & Eve did. You're blaming someone else for your sins.

They blamed each other and the serpent, and you're blaming them.
They deserve the blame. Their children could not help being marred by sin because Adam and Eve could not pass on perfection and sinlessness to their children, having become imperfect and sinful. It's in the genes. Their kids got what they could give them---sin and death.

Jehovah immediately set in motion a plan to remedy Adam's children's plight. All they have to do is accept Jesus' atonement sacrifice and do what he says. Simple.
If Adam and Eve deserve the blame for our sins, then isn't God unjust in punishing us for our sins.

What Adam and Eve obviously started is the Blame Game. Everybody needs somebody to blame.

====================================

Jesus obviously did not inherit the sin gene.

Since Mary was a virgin and Jesus did not get the gene, I suppose that males carrier that gene. ( That figures )

==================================

If we have Jesus because of Adam, should we thank Adam? Make him a saint or something?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #84

Post by Eloi »

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #2]
It is precisely for this reason that God sent his Son to die: his blood has ransom value because we needed a perfect being who would give the corresponding compensation for the error of our first human father when he was perfect. Jesus is called in Scripture "the last Adam" (1 Cor. 15:45).

John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 Whoever exercises faith in him is not to be judged. Whoever does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. 19 Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.”

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Re: The Atonement

Post #85

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:22 pm

If Adam and Eve deserve the blame for our sins, then isn't God unjust in punishing us for our sins.

Adam and Eve don't deserve the blame for our sins, they deserve the blame for our tendance to sin /our weakness to sin. They are responsible for out predisposition to sin. We are responsible for the sins we actially commit.

Is God unjust in punishing us for our sins?

No, because his punishment takes the above into consideration and ( under certain conditions ) he mercifully is ready to waver punishment altogether.




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Re: The Atonement

Post #86

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:22 pm
onewithhim wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:44 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:25 pm
Eloi wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:59 am Adam and Eve died for their own disobedience. Jehovah God directly punished them with death, just as he had warned them. The rest of humanity dies because of them, NOT because of a direct condemnation from God. We were sold to sin and death by our first parents.

Adam and Eve were not in any covenant in which mankind has subsequently been involved. Those pacts came into being precisely because of their disobedience. They only had to be obedient, and they would have lived forever together with all their descendants. All that was required of them was to let God decide for them what they could eat.
You're doing the same thing Adam & Eve did. You're blaming someone else for your sins.

They blamed each other and the serpent, and you're blaming them.
They deserve the blame. Their children could not help being marred by sin because Adam and Eve could not pass on perfection and sinlessness to their children, having become imperfect and sinful. It's in the genes. Their kids got what they could give them---sin and death.

Jehovah immediately set in motion a plan to remedy Adam's children's plight. All they have to do is accept Jesus' atonement sacrifice and do what he says. Simple.
If Adam and Eve deserve the blame for our sins, then isn't God unjust in punishing us for our sins.

What Adam and Eve obviously started is the Blame Game. Everybody needs somebody to blame.

====================================

Jesus obviously did not inherit the sin gene.

Since Mary was a virgin and Jesus did not get the gene, I suppose that males carrier that gene. ( That figures )

==================================

If we have Jesus because of Adam, should we thank Adam? Make him a saint or something?
Thank Adam? I have said before, if Adam hadn't sinned, Jesus wouldn't have had to come to Earth at all to sacrifice his life as an atonement for sins.

.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #87

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:49 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:22 pm If Adam and Eve deserve the blame for our sins, then isn't God unjust in punishing us for our sins.
Adam and Eve don't deserve the blame for our sins, they deserve the blame for our tendance to sin /our weakness to sin. They are responsible for out predisposition to sin.
No, Adam & Eve are not to blame for our tendency, weakness, or predestination to sin.

The tendency to sin is a characteristic of all natural flesh and blood bodies by design. And God designed them that way.

If someone is starving, they will typically reach a point of stealing food.

If someone receives pain from some behavior, they will avoid that behavior.

If someone receives pleasure from some behavior, they will seek to repeat that behavior.

Adam & Eve did not design themselves that way.

God designed them that way.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #88

Post by Eloi »

Wow!!!!
I heard "do not blame Adam and Eve; blame our Creator" ... That's way too much.

Deut. 32:3 For I will declare the name of Jehovah.
Tell about the greatness of our God!
 4 The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he.
 5 They are the ones who have acted corruptly.
They are not his children, the defect is their own.
They are a crooked and twisted generation!
 6 Is this the way that you should treat Jehovah,
O foolish and unwise people?
Is he not your Father who caused your existence,
The One who made you and firmly established you?

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Re: The Atonement

Post #89

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:58 pm
JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 1:49 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:22 pm If Adam and Eve deserve the blame for our sins, then isn't God unjust in punishing us for our sins.
Adam and Eve don't deserve the blame for our sins, they deserve the blame for our tendance to sin /our weakness to sin. They are responsible for out predisposition to sin.
No, Adam & Eve are not to blame for our tendency, weakness, or predestination to sin.

The tendency to sin is a characteristic of all natural flesh and blood bodies by design. And God designed them that way.
No He did not design them that way. That is your unsubstantiated opinion. Everything God created was perfect, He was satisfied with everything. Do you think He would've said that His creation was "very good" if something was NOT good?

"The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice." (Deuteronomy 32:4)

Adam & Eve are absolutely responsible for plunging the world into sin and chaos. Otherwise Jehovah would not have put them to death.
.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #90

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:58 pm
The tendency to sin is a characteristic of all natural flesh and blood bodies by design. And God designed them that way.
Not according to scripture.

ROMANS 5:19

For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous.

If God designed us that way, the bible would say that "through the actions of God many were made sinners" not through the disobedience of [Adam]




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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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