The Atonement

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Revelations won
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The Atonement

Post #1

Post by Revelations won »

To all true Christians there is nothing more important to our salvation than "The Atonement of Jesus Christ".

Having said that, is it not therefore extremely important to every individual to understand fully what and how the atonement works for our benefit?

What does the atonement do or does not do?

What is required on our part to receive the full benefits of the atonement?

What and when and by whom did the atonement begin?

Can anyone clearly show all scriptures pertaining to the atonement?

I look forward to hearing your "take" on this most important topic.

Kind regards,
RW

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Re: The Atonement

Post #91

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:37 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 2:58 pm
The tendency to sin is a characteristic of all natural flesh and blood bodies by design. And God designed them that way.
Not according to scripture.
So Adam & Eve were not designed to experience pleasure, pain, hunger, thirst, etc?

And seeking pleasure doesn't tempt us toward sin?

And extreme hunger doesn't tempt us to sin?

==============================================

Human temptations are temptations due to humans being created as natural flesh and blood bodies:
Galations 4:14 wrote:And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
And God created man as flesh.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #92

Post by Revelations won »

To All,

It is interesting to see how many are still playing the blame game today!

Let us take a fresh look at the situation of Adam.God simply asked Adam what he had done. Adam gave a simple and direct answer to the question "the woman whom thou gavest me gave me of the fruit of the tree and I did eat." There is NO statement in Genesis that Adam was playing the "blame game".

The Lord told Adam that eating of the fruit was forbidden and then added the statement "nevertheless less thou mayest choose for thyself".

We should clearly understand that all of us, including Adam and Eve are literal spirit children of our Heavenly Father as so declared in the scriptures.

Christ was the chosen first born son of God the Father and was foreordained to be our savior before the foundations of this earth were even laid.

Adam and Eve were placed here in a state of childlike innocence. Their eyes were not yet opened to discern good from evil. They were therefore totally lacking any experience of choices to discern good from evil.

Lucifer added some truth to his lies in his plot to deceive Eve when he said "your eyes will be opened to know Good from Evil. ( A truth later verified by the Lord himself in Genesis)

Are all you "blame game players of today" trying to tell me that we should all remain in stark ignorance not knowing good from evil?

Are you claiming that this act of Adam and Eve were not part of God's plan for us?

Are you claiming that God did not place us here on this earth to be tested?


Kind regards,
RW

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #93

Post by cms »

Revelations won wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:22 am Re: The AtonementQuote Revelations won
by Revelations won » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:22 am

To All,

It is interesting to see how many are still playing the blame game today!

Let us take a fresh look at the situation of Adam.God simply asked Adam what he had done. Adam gave a simple and direct answer to the question "the woman whom thou gavest me gave me of the fruit of the tree and I did eat." There is NO statement in Genesis that Adam was playing the "blame game".

Revelations won, I agree. I don't see any blame game going on here either, but rather a simple truthful confession. And yet, those who say that Adam and Eve were placing the blame on someone else, go on to blame them for the sins of the world. the original sin theory, to me, is but a false doctrine, as it says in Ezek. Chapter 18: "What do you mean in saying "The father's have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge."
The story of Adam and Eve is just that- a story. They were instructed to be fruitful but instead, they ate from a tree that bears bad fruit. And we are given the same instructions in the New Testament: "Every tree that does not bring forth fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire."

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Re: The Atonement

Post #94

Post by myth-one.com »

cms wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:01 pm
Revelations won wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:22 am Re: The AtonementQuote Revelations won
by Revelations won » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:22 am

To All,

It is interesting to see how many are still playing the blame game today!

Let us take a fresh look at the situation of Adam.God simply asked Adam what he had done. Adam gave a simple and direct answer to the question "the woman whom thou gavest me gave me of the fruit of the tree and I did eat." There is NO statement in Genesis that Adam was playing the "blame game".
Revelations won, I agree. I don't see any blame game going on here either, but rather a simple truthful confession.


<==============================================================>

Genesis 3:12-13 wrote:And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Neither the man nor the woman accepted total responsibility for their actions.

Man blamed his sin on the woman who gave him the forbidden fruit , and indirectly on God for giving him the woman in the first place, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat." Adam never asked for that woman.

The woman blamed her sin on the serpent for beguiling her.

Men and women have had a problem trusting each other ever since.

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #95

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:05 pm Neither the man nor the woman accepted total responsibility for their actions.
Woman: "What did you do? Are you cheating on me?"
Man: " My friend Tony took me to his office party and introduced me to one of his co- workers. We bonded and I slept with her."

Is the man blaming Tony? Or is he just simply telling the woman what happened
To me, it's a plain and simple confession.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #96

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to cms in post #95]
God to Adam wrote:Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
The simple and direct answer would be "Yes".
God to Eve wrote:What is this that thou hast done?
The simple and direct would be that "I ate from the tree also."

God already knew that both of them ate fruit from the forbidden tree.

The question was asked to see if they would accept responsibility.

They kinda did.

They admitted that they did but under these circumstances . . .

cms

Re: The Atonement

Post #97

Post by cms »

myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm The question was asked to see if they would accept responsibility.
Myth one, there was more than one question. "Who told you that you were naked?"
Adam's answer: The woman
Eve's answer: the serpent

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Re: The Atonement

Post #98

Post by myth-one.com »

cms wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:42 am
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm The question was asked to see if they would accept responsibility.
Myth one, there was more than one question. "Who told you that you were naked?"
Adam's answer: The woman
Eve's answer: the serpent
Where did the woman tell Adam he was naked?

Where did the serpent tell Eve she was naked?

Not that's it's any big deal -- just curious.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #99

Post by onewithhim »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:17 pm
cms wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:42 am
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm The question was asked to see if they would accept responsibility.
Myth one, there was more than one question. "Who told you that you were naked?"
Adam's answer: The woman
Eve's answer: the serpent
Where did the woman tell Adam he was naked?

Where did the serpent tell Eve she was naked?

Not that's it's any big deal -- just curious.
This is the scenario:

Jehovah said, "'Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?' The man said: 'The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate.' Jehovah God then said to the woman: 'What is this you have done?' The woman replied: 'The serpent deceived me, so I ate.'" (Genesis 3:11-13)

Nothing about who told them they were naked.

I think that when they ate the fruit they realized something had changed; nobody needed to tell them. They sensed that they had lost Jehovah's favor and they were in big trouble.

.

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Re: The Atonement

Post #100

Post by myth-one.com »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:16 pm
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:17 pm
cms wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:42 am
myth-one.com wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:39 pm The question was asked to see if they would accept responsibility.
Myth one, there was more than one question. "Who told you that you were naked?"
Adam's answer: The woman
Eve's answer: the serpent
Where did the woman tell Adam he was naked?

Where did the serpent tell Eve she was naked?

Not that's it's any big deal -- just curious.
This is the scenario:

Jehovah said, "'Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?' The man said: 'The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, so I ate.' Jehovah God then said to the woman: 'What is this you have done?' The woman replied: 'The serpent deceived me, so I ate.'" (Genesis 3:11-13)

Nothing about who told them they were naked.

I think that when they ate the fruit they realized something had changed; nobody needed to tell them. They sensed that they had lost Jehovah's favor and they were in big trouble.
They were naked before eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

They were naked after eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Their appearance was the same before and after eating the forbidden fruit.

<=====================================>

But they knew good from evil after eating the forbidden fruit.

They then hid from God because they were naked.

They wouldn't hid from God if they had done good.

The implication is that nakedness is evil.

Babies are born naked.

Are they thus born into sin?

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