All believers know very well that false religions exist, that is, they either have beliefs that are erroneous, or that their members and leaders allow / practice things that God condemns, or they stop doing things that God's Word says would be identifying of the true followers of Jesus Christ. Because of that, millions of people have decided that there is not a single religious community that is the true people of God united with whom they should also try to join.
We know that this is so because shortly after the death of the apostles, religious apostasy plunged Christians into very deep darkness, and it was almost impossible to distinguish what was true in religious matters or what should not be done if one was a Christian. , etc. Since then it was as if the few Christians that emerged were born in an exiled country, as when the Jews were exiled in Babylon, a country of many gods and where they had to be very strong to resist the pressure and control of the environment of that system where they had been taken into captivity.
Many years passed until modern times, when a little here and a little there, the Bible became better known, also history, etc. and those who had religious control of the world could not prevent people realizing the religious lies that sincere believers had been subjected to for thousands of years. For example, no longer all believed that they should kneel in front of images, or consider Mary as if she were "mother of God", and so on. This process was necessary for the truths to be clarified, and as Jesus said, the wheat would not be destroyed along with the weeds.
Let's talk a bit about that process in this topic. In that time of captivity in the form of exile, the believers were subjected to many erroneous teachings and religious practices that are still believed in the world, but how can they be discovered?
The great religious scam
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onewithhim
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Re: The great religious scam
Post #41[Replying to tam in post #41]
It is not possible to have good deeds without acceptance of Christ and his Father, God. I think that is the first "good deed." Then what follows are good deeds, done for the glory of the Father.
It is not possible to have good deeds without acceptance of Christ and his Father, God. I think that is the first "good deed." Then what follows are good deeds, done for the glory of the Father.
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tam
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Re: The great religious scam
Post #42Peace to you,
Paul speaks of this to the Romans (2:13-16), where people of the nations can do NATURALLY the requirements of the law (which law was love from the beginning, and is love now), making them a law unto themselves, their consciences bearing witness, sometimes accusing them, sometimes defending them.
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them
There ARE people of the nations who do the requirements of the law (love) by NATURE. Not because they are obeying a law, but because those requirements are naturally written upon their hearts.
Love also covers over a multitude of sins. 1Peter 4:8; Proverbs 10:12
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
But that is not true, owh. An act of love or mercy, if it comes from a Christian or a non-Christian, from a theist or an atheist, is still an act of love.onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:08 pm [Replying to tam in post #41]
It is not possible to have good deeds without acceptance of Christ and his Father, God. I think that is the first "good deed." Then what follows are good deeds, done for the glory of the Father.
Paul speaks of this to the Romans (2:13-16), where people of the nations can do NATURALLY the requirements of the law (which law was love from the beginning, and is love now), making them a law unto themselves, their consciences bearing witness, sometimes accusing them, sometimes defending them.
For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. So they show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them
There ARE people of the nations who do the requirements of the law (love) by NATURE. Not because they are obeying a law, but because those requirements are naturally written upon their hearts.
Love also covers over a multitude of sins. 1Peter 4:8; Proverbs 10:12
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
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onewithhim
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Re: The great religious scam
Post #43[Replying to tam in post #43]
Jesus said, "There is only one that is good, and that is God." For any deeds to be good, God must be involved. Without Jehovah there isn't any life at all.
Jesus said, "There is only one that is good, and that is God." For any deeds to be good, God must be involved. Without Jehovah there isn't any life at all.
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tam
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Re: The great religious scam
Post #44Peace to you,
He also said those words in response to someone who called Him good, but we know that if one does good to even a least one of His brothers, they have done good to Him also (even unknowingly), and are, as in the sheep and the goats parable, invited into the Kingdom.
Second, as Paul stated to the Romans, people of the nations can do NATURALLY the requirements of the law (which is love). Romans 2. If someone shows mercy to another person, out of love, they may not realize that they are doing something God desires, but they are still doing something God desires (Hosea 6:6; Matt 9:13; Matt 5:7). They may just be doing so naturally, showing that the requirements of the law (love) is upon their heart. Just like what Paul spoke of in Romans 2.
**
I'm not sure why you brought up "without Jehovah there isn't any life at all." We were discussing good deeds; love, even mercy.
God is much more merciful - His love much greater - than many people think; certainly much more than what religions teach.
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
First, that conclusion does not follow the statement; it is something you are reading into the text. Christ said that there is only one who is good, and that is God. He did not say that there can be no good deeds unless one is Christian/believes in God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:14 pm [Replying to tam in post #43]
Jesus said, "There is only one that is good, and that is God." For any deeds to be good, God must be involved. Without Jehovah there isn't any life at all.
He also said those words in response to someone who called Him good, but we know that if one does good to even a least one of His brothers, they have done good to Him also (even unknowingly), and are, as in the sheep and the goats parable, invited into the Kingdom.
Second, as Paul stated to the Romans, people of the nations can do NATURALLY the requirements of the law (which is love). Romans 2. If someone shows mercy to another person, out of love, they may not realize that they are doing something God desires, but they are still doing something God desires (Hosea 6:6; Matt 9:13; Matt 5:7). They may just be doing so naturally, showing that the requirements of the law (love) is upon their heart. Just like what Paul spoke of in Romans 2.
**
I'm not sure why you brought up "without Jehovah there isn't any life at all." We were discussing good deeds; love, even mercy.
God is much more merciful - His love much greater - than many people think; certainly much more than what religions teach.
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
-
onewithhim
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Re: The great religious scam
Post #45Jehovah IS love. He is the source of goodness and everything good. He is truly merciful. Yet he will not brook anyone who refuses to worship him. Christ said that he, Christ himself, is the only way to God. If a person won't accept him, Jesus, there is no getting to the Father Who has the life of everything in His hands. How can Jehovah accept good works when that person might not accept Him?tam wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:44 pm Peace to you,
First, that conclusion does not follow the statement; it is something you are reading into the text. Christ said that there is only one who is good, and that is God. He did not say that there can be no good deeds unless one is Christian/believes in God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:14 pm [Replying to tam in post #43]
Jesus said, "There is only one that is good, and that is God." For any deeds to be good, God must be involved. Without Jehovah there isn't any life at all.
He also said those words in response to someone who called Him good, but we know that if one does good to even a least one of His brothers, they have done good to Him also (even unknowingly), and are, as in the sheep and the goats parable, invited into the Kingdom.
Second, as Paul stated to the Romans, people of the nations can do NATURALLY the requirements of the law (which is love). Romans 2. If someone shows mercy to another person, out of love, they may not realize that they are doing something God desires, but they are still doing something God desires (Hosea 6:6; Matt 9:13; Matt 5:7). They may just be doing so naturally, showing that the requirements of the law (love) is upon their heart. Just like what Paul spoke of in Romans 2.
**
I'm not sure why you brought up "without Jehovah there isn't any life at all." We were discussing good deeds; love, even mercy.
God is much more merciful - His love much greater - than many people think; certainly much more than what religions teach.
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
-
tam
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Re: The great religious scam
Post #46Peace to you,
Who said that these people are going to refuse to worship or love or obey God (JAHVEH), or that they are not going to accept His Son (Jaheshua)? These people will be gathered before Christ and God (either when Christ returns and gathers the nations before Him... or at the resurrection of the dead when they are standing before the throne of God)... so it might not be a matter of faith for them, since they will see for themselves, but what makes you think they would reject God or His Son? The sheep from the sheep and the goats parable did not know that they were doing anything for Christ, yet, they were still invited into the Kingdom and given the gift of life (eternal life). I imagine that would inspire love in return.
Obviously if someone refuses to accept Christ (and His Father), then that person is probably not going to be invited into the Kingdom. These people of the nations that Paul is referring to are doing NATURALLY the requirements of the law (love) that is from God. They may not know God (or His Son), but they may be known and invited into the Kingdom based on what they have done (including what they have unknowingly done for Christ). The sheep from the sheep and the goats parable DID NOT KNOW that they had done anything for Christ.
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
What can I say on the matter except to repeat my previous points? I don't think you addressed those directly, and you also seem to be ignoring the quote from Paul to the Romans.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:24 amJehovah IS love. He is the source of goodness and everything good. He is truly merciful. Yet he will not brook anyone who refuses to worship him. Christ said that he, Christ himself, is the only way to God. If a person won't accept him, Jesus, there is no getting to the Father Who has the life of everything in His hands. How can Jehovah accept good works when that person might not accept Him?tam wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:44 pm Peace to you,
First, that conclusion does not follow the statement; it is something you are reading into the text. Christ said that there is only one who is good, and that is God. He did not say that there can be no good deeds unless one is Christian/believes in God.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:14 pm [Replying to tam in post #43]
Jesus said, "There is only one that is good, and that is God." For any deeds to be good, God must be involved. Without Jehovah there isn't any life at all.
He also said those words in response to someone who called Him good, but we know that if one does good to even a least one of His brothers, they have done good to Him also (even unknowingly), and are, as in the sheep and the goats parable, invited into the Kingdom.
Second, as Paul stated to the Romans, people of the nations can do NATURALLY the requirements of the law (which is love). Romans 2. If someone shows mercy to another person, out of love, they may not realize that they are doing something God desires, but they are still doing something God desires (Hosea 6:6; Matt 9:13; Matt 5:7). They may just be doing so naturally, showing that the requirements of the law (love) is upon their heart. Just like what Paul spoke of in Romans 2.
**
I'm not sure why you brought up "without Jehovah there isn't any life at all." We were discussing good deeds; love, even mercy.
God is much more merciful - His love much greater - than many people think; certainly much more than what religions teach.
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
Who said that these people are going to refuse to worship or love or obey God (JAHVEH), or that they are not going to accept His Son (Jaheshua)? These people will be gathered before Christ and God (either when Christ returns and gathers the nations before Him... or at the resurrection of the dead when they are standing before the throne of God)... so it might not be a matter of faith for them, since they will see for themselves, but what makes you think they would reject God or His Son? The sheep from the sheep and the goats parable did not know that they were doing anything for Christ, yet, they were still invited into the Kingdom and given the gift of life (eternal life). I imagine that would inspire love in return.
Obviously if someone refuses to accept Christ (and His Father), then that person is probably not going to be invited into the Kingdom. These people of the nations that Paul is referring to are doing NATURALLY the requirements of the law (love) that is from God. They may not know God (or His Son), but they may be known and invited into the Kingdom based on what they have done (including what they have unknowingly done for Christ). The sheep from the sheep and the goats parable DID NOT KNOW that they had done anything for Christ.
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy
